You should not mod any stick until you tried that stick out in it’s unmodified form.
I feel Octagonal and round gates teaches people to ride/grind the gate, specially those new to the scene.
I never tore up a actuator faster than the day I switched to a round gate.
So 99.991% of the time I would recommend against Octagonal gates.
I completely agree with you. I don’t like riding the gate and I feel the square encourages against it. I put an octo on there a while ago just to try it out. Also, I have no intention of modding the hayubasa until I’ve tried it out for a long while and gotten confortable with it (if ever). I was just curious if it was something people did. You (I think) mentioned that the JLW wasn’t something that you mod (or something like that). I was just curious if the hayubasa was the same in the sense that people don’t really ever mod it, unlike the JLF, which is modded frequently. That’s all I’m getting at; curiosity.
Also, as far as the shaft spinning I just realized that I only put the washer (dist cover) on one side of the top arcade stick cover. I didn’t realize until a minute ago that you put the washer on both sides of the panel.
EDIT: I’m putting my kowal actuator on my JLF right now to try that in comparison to the hayubasa. I’m watching this video and it says that if you’re going to a 1mm or over you should change the spring too. First of all, should I consider trying different springs before trying different actuators? I don’t have everything in the mail yet, but I do have the LS-55 and the 2lb springs. Would either of them work with the kowal actuator since he’s saying I need to put a different one in? What is the stock JLF spring? LS-55? Given what was said in the video, is it not worth trying the kowal with the stock spring?
EDIT 2: Any trick to getting this damn c-clip back on? Jesus its difficult!
I modded my JLWs with round gates and stiffer springs and a longer shaft and removed spring on one of them (for a specific game). I will also be modding a JLW with a hollow shaft for my new main stick and a translucent ball top for LED modding. Specifically, you were told not to switch mod your JLW since that stick is designed for levered switches and it can be difficult to find levered Cherry switches. Not impossible mind you, but difficult.
I made some edits for anyone who’s dying to help me out!
EDIT: So I put the Kowal actuator in with the LS-55 spring, put the c-clip back on and tried to move the stick around a little bit (just the stick without the balltop (I like holding wineglass style so its relevant) while the stick was just sitting on my desk. Way too stiff for me. I felt it was too stiff to even bother hooking it back into the TE. I did the same thing with the 2lb spring and had the same problem. Now, I read on another thread that some people stack the springs or something like that. I didn’t do anything of the sort - I just replaced the spring completely. I put the default JLF spring back in with the Kowal actuator and hooked it up. Now I’m in training mode and I notice that there’s a lot less dead zone, which I like a lot. This is a 1mm, and I honestly don’t know how I would deal with any less dead zone, when there’s already almost none. I guess its for putting on a heavier spring and giving it a different feel. I understand why you wouldn’t want a light spring on a > 1mm actuator.
I’m curious - what’s the difference between the kowal 1mm and the 1mm I ordered? I’d also be very interested to know how tight (lb) the stock JLF spring is, as well as the LS -55. I tried googling it, but to no avail. Thanks! ^.^
EDIT I lost count: With the hayubasa and the Kowal actuator modded JLF I’m still having that problem where I sometimes DP in stead of special / ultra, and when I sometimes punch instead of hadoken. Even without that problem I still didn’t care for the stock JLF, but I’m trying to figure out if I’m having that problem because of me or because of the stick. What’s REALLY odd is that the input display seems to show the exact same thing as a hadoken when it comes out just a punch. I can sit there and hadoken 20 times in a row, Then I’ll get a high punch 1 out of 3 for a few cycles.
Stock JLF spring is .9lbs so a 2lb spring is double the tension. You say you want to “flick” the joystick. Did you find the stock JLF too stiff to do so?
Use pliers to put the c-clip back on. Place one arm on the clip and the other on the opposite side of the shaft and squeeze. Careful not to damage your actuator.
@Cagan I personally use the JLF due to it being super light, so unless it’s been fitted incorrectly, I’d maybe look at your own technique. Have you tested it out with input display on? (ie in Training Mode on any SFIV). I’d start there.
I need to “flick” the JLF for KOF hops and find it’s ideal, possibly too much DZ for you, but other than that it’s fine. Could you have possibly over-modded it for your own tastes? Maybe go back to all-stock and gradually change things, one by one, til the problem comes back.
SF4 is the only game I play. I posted that I’m using input display in training mode and I’m seeing the exact same inputs show up when I hadoken and when it just punches. I have no clue how that’s even possible!
I don’t think I’m ‘over modding’. I only have one mod at a time in each (of my two) sticks. I was concerned about the kowal actuator not being able to be solo modded because of the installation video I saw, which stated that I should be using a larger spring. I tried the larger springs, as aforementioned, and I didn’t like them so I just put the kowal actuator in with the default JLF spring. I understand now why they insist on a heavier one, because while I was trying to practice DP FDAC ultra 1 I would constantly jump forward when trying to dash after the FDAC. I have to be 100% precise with the kowal actuator or it will actuate undesired inputs. I’m assuming that the heavier spring makes it more difficult to ‘hit the wrong key’ much like a heavier mechanical keyboard switch would.
Correct. You will get “Rebound Inputs” from the 1mm oversized actuator without a stiffer spring. I’ve never tested a 1.5 lb spring with a 1mm but that might work. Either way, I don’t think you are looking for quicker inputs. You seem to be more concerned with the spring tension. I think you should try a .5lb spring with the stock actuator. Again, never tested this spring since I prefer my shafts stiff (giggity).
A heavier spring is not a must with the kowal, the video just points out that it’s convenient to change it while you’re already swapping the actuator.
I have weak hands due to multiple surgeries on my ulnar nerves. I don’t want a lot of tension. I want to be able to make easy, small, accurate motions. I just took a video of the type of motions I like to do. I was using the hayubasa in the video. I’m still not sure how much I like it though. For whatever reason it just doesn’t seem as accurate with the motions I’m trying to do. Again, it could be 100% because of lack of practice and ability. Here is what I’m trying to accomplish. http://youtu.be/b5gEPQWTbEg
What I’ve tried so far:
Stock JLF
Stock Hayubasa
JLF stock spring + kowal 1mm actuator
JLF LS - 55 spring + kowal 1mm actuator (tried out of the stick just pushing the lever, which felt too stiff to even justify bothering installing back into the TE)
JLF 2lb spring + kowal 1mm actuator (same as above)
Of the package I received today the only thing I have left to try is the crown. Just playing around on the uninstalled lever I’ve noticed hitting diagonals is much more difficult than hitting 4 way. I’ll try installing it later and see how it feels, but I have a sense it isn’t going to be my knight in shining armor.
Why didn’t you just say this in the First Place?!
Why you are going for stronger springs? Go for weaker springs, and perhaps a shorter throw.
get a LS-58, short throw, weak spring
He said he wanted to “flick” the joystick and I just deciphered this today to meaning he wants to be able to breathe on the shaft and make it move. LS-58 would be good for this but there are also .5lb springs at PAS you sould try for the JLF/Hayabusa. Not sure if anyone has mentioned to you that many JLF parts are cross-compatible with the Hayabusa, @Cagan. This includes shafts, actuators, and springs.
I’ll try that out, thanks. I may also get a weaker spring for my JLF and try that too. Doesn’t the oversized actuator make it easier to actuate? I have that set of actuators coming in (eventually hopefully. My paradise arcade order hasn’t even shipped yet. I ordered it the same day as I ordered stuff from focus attack and I already have my FA package). Maybe I’ll try putting the .5mm actuator on my JLF and see how that goes too. Shorter throw means that you push less hard in order to actuate, correct?
What is the JLW like? Tension / throw or whatever wise.
Also, I’m going to install my crown and check it out (I have it here; may as well). I put the shaft cover from my JLF on the crown and the cover actually restricted the movement of the stick. Can you just not use a shaft cover for crowns? Also, in regards to the LS-58: Once I figure out what stick I like, Jasen is going to make me a Panzer. I’m going to be using LED’s, and I’d rather let him install all of that so I need to tell him what stick I want to use before he can do it. These LS-58’s come with different ball top / shaft color options. Are they moddable for balltop LEDs? Just curious. Thanks.
EDIT: It would also be really great if I could double tap easier for FDAC.
Oversized actuators make switches engage with less motion but don’t effect how much resistance there is to actually cause the shaft to move. Throw is the distance from the actuator’s lower part (smaller part) to the gate. Engage is the distance from neutral (or contacting edge of upper part of the actuator) to the activation of a switch. Neither throw or engage have anything to do with tension which would be the resistance (caused by a spring in the case of your standard Jap joystick lever and a rubber grommet in your Crown) to move the shaft.
There are special shaft/dustwasher combo units for Korean levers. I believe Myo Fantas come with them but the Crown does not. These are not readily available in the US. I know one person with some stock but they are hanging on to them for something special. They aren’t really needed. Don’t worry about it.
No hollow LS-56/8 shafts are available (yet). But this should be coming soon from a well known parts retailer (along with a plethora of other unique and innovative products for our little community), Paradise Arcade Shop.
Shorter throw means you push less in distance, but it wont reduce the load. An oversized actuator reduces the dead-zone so the lash (lost motion) between neutral and any direction is reduced, but the switches load and the springs load are unaffected, so you’ll push just as hard, only the action will engage after a shorter distance.
Nobody answered your JLW question, but with those problems, the JLW is not for you. It is the stiffest of the Japanese sticks stock.
Thanks a lot everyone! I’ll order a .5 spring and a LS - 58. Is the LS a well made stick? Also, I do like having the shorter throw. I know that having the 1mm kowal doesn’t work great (hitting every switch at once), but what about the other actuators? How is the standard 1mm oversized different than the kowal? Would a .5 spring work well with the .5mm actuator? (work well as in not easily hit every switch at once like the kowal + stock JLF spring).
The aim of the Kowal actuator is to both shorten engage and to make the “dead zone” or neutral wiggle smaller. In order to do the later the actuator was designed with vertical walls instead of slanted walls like your standard JLF/Busa actuator. The Kowal may touch each switch pin at neutral but it shouldn’t be causing inputs when not being touched. This isn’t happening to you is it? I will tell you right now that there is a difference in feel from a Kowal shaped to a standard shaped actuator. But don’t take my word for it… (Reading Rainbow Kickstarter updates going through my head).
Maybe others can speak of the lighter springs but I think people mostly increase tension but I digress…You have a good chance to test this for the benefit of us all, so let us know if the .5 lb gives you rebound inputs. (Use SFIV input display).
The kowal isn’t pushing directions while in neutral, I just feel like when I move the joystick I’m getting more directions than I’m aiming for. Example - if I move right I go up right too. I’m jumping a lot when trying to FDAC.
What are rebound inputs?
Also - does anyone know if Paradise Arcade Shop frequently takes a really long time to ship out items? Its really concerning me that I already received items from focus attack when paradise hasn’t even sent them yet.
EDIT: Well the crown was 2 and a half hour bust. I couldn’t get the top panel on flush with the damn thing inside it. This video tells you to bend the tabs in order to get it to sit right. I did that, didn’t work. I fiddled with them forever and eventually broke 3 of the damn things just trying to get them in place!
I’m guessing they’re when you push and let go of the stick, like rebounds back beyond center enough to hit the opposite side switch. The Kowal (with stock spring at least) is supposed to reduce/eliminate that, and while it does reduce the activation distance, there should be enough leeway that you’re not hitting everything on accident.
As for the Paradise actuators, they have the stock shape (slanted edge) but bigger diameter, I don’t think they reduce throw though. Someone posted comparison pics in another thread a while back comparing them and the Paradise had the same diameter as stock where the actuator touches the gate, while the Kowal was thicker there. That was the main reason I went with the Kowal myself (cause octagonal gates extend the x/y axis throw distance), the tweak to the stick feel was just a nice side benefit for me.
Anyway from reading your posts it sounds like some of your issues may just be down to execution from a lack of experience with sticks in general. You might want to stick with something like whatever stock setup and just play for a while to get used to using a stick.