Thanks. Only thing I need to figure out now is the lubricant stuff.
I don’t agree at all. I’m just trying to get a handle on what to buy so I can determine what works best for me. Without the help I had received here I wouldn’t have had any idea where to even start.
I’m not asking what people prefer between actuator a vs b. I’m asking which set of them I should buy in terms of what’s common and appropriate. Now that I have that under control I can try all the different actuator / springs / sticks and figure out what works best for me.
I wasn’t thinking of the SW-68.
http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/sw/11/d2rv.html
They list durability as minimum presses (10 million) versus MTBF. Not sure the actual MTBF would make it to the additional 40 million, but it’s impossible to know since Omron lists durability differently.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good thing you’re learning all this.
However, you technically DO (or DID) have a place to start. You asked about the JLF and its mods; I listed (as a second post to this thread) each of the components of the JLF and how they affect the JLF’s motions.
So I’m presuming you own and use a JLF. What do you like about it? More importantly, what DON’T you like about it?
Don’t like the throw distance? Change the gate to a smaller one, or the actuator to a larger one.
Don’t like the engage? Change the actuator; the larger the actuator, the earlier the switches will engage.
Don’t like the tension? Change the spring; the stiffer the spring, the hard the stick snaps back to center.
Asking people (for example) whether you should get the Kowal actuator or the PAS actuator is like saying "I want to try out all the sodas out there to decide for myself which I like best, but which do you guys think I should get? Coke or Pepsi?"
You’re asking people to narrow down your choices based on what they think is good, and you’re not narrowing down by figuring out what feels good for yourself.
The correct answer to all of your questions is technically “buy it ALL and try it ALL yourself”. Anything anyone tells you is 100% subjective.
For example, if you asked me for JLF mods, I’d tell you to put an octo-gate, Kowal actuator, LS-55 spring, and a bat-top. For no real technical reason whatsoever, but I just liked the feel.
As @PresidentCamacho said:
In reality though, I haven’t used a JLF in about year, because I realized I really don’t like it. I’d recommend a Seimitsu LS-32 or a Hori Hayabusa instead.
Thanks a lot bud. I was just thinking there was some universally accepted place to start. I’ve got a lot of stuff coming in the mail and I intend to mix / match and try.
Now I can’t put a Hayabuasa in my madcatz can I? Also, my actuators are metal and (apparently) I need to use lubricant. Can you please tell me how to go about applying it?
EDIT: Also, for the korean types of sticks like crown and fanta - I’d like to get some more opinions. I ask because I want to order a new fightstick but I’m not sure if I should consider buying that Panzer Korean edition that’s coming out. I intend to try the crown and make my own opinions before anything, but I’m curious nonetheless. Someone told me that the korean sticks are better for Tekken and have issues with diagonals.
As far as what I’m ‘looking for’ is something that I can use my thumb and first two fingers to flick more. I feel like there’s too much motion required to get the stock JLF to do what I want. I’m new to all of this, but I really love it and I want to really get into it.
EDIT 2: Also, for the JLW - Darksakul said that I need to get a dust washer no shaft cover version. How the heck do I know which that is? There are a ton of shaft covers on there.
Hayabusa fits most places a jlf does. On a te I believe you have to cut a small piece of plastic below the mounting area. First search result for lubing jlf’s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjjwE6v4KBw
I don’t really care about lubbing the whole stick - just what I need to for the actuator (since its metal I apparently need to do that). I skimmed through the video a bit but I’ll watch the whole thing later. Hopefully it shows that part. Thanks
Hence why I gave up on this dude. Its like speaking to a brick wall.
He should follow his own advice
To everyone else in the thread, If he already tried the JLF, and the JLF is the most widely used joystick out there at this time.
The vast majority of sticks out there use the JLF, and the majority of Japanese arcade cabs use the JLF.
But there many of us that prefer other models of joysticks.
Arguing about what Joystick to use is like arguing what Pizza toppings to get, and the Pizza place sells the Pizza by the slice.
To @Cagan I grow frustrated with this whole bloody thread and I explain why.
When you stop throwing the advice you are given back into peoples faces, actually start to read and make a effort to understand what being said maybe then I start talking to you again.
This whole thread you make no effort to understand what being said, you skim or scan for a few buzz words and make a few half understandings. Then you get attitudes to those who are tiring to help.
I don’t understand what you’re saying at all. I’ve read every bit of what people have written and I don’t think I’ve taken an attitude with anyone. I’ve been nothing but grateful for the advice given to me here.
I’m not trying to argue about anything. I was just trying to get advice as to what to buy so I could try it. I wasn’t saying that I needed to know whether I should get stick a or b, I was trying to get the names of a and b so I could try both. I was told to get oversized actuators but there were different types. Wouldn’t it be logical for me to ask which of those types I should buy? I haven’t thrown anyone’s advice away. I really don’t understand how you can see that.
If I’ve offended you I apologize. I really don’t want to make enemies with anyone here, but especially you since you seem to be an incredibly knowledgeable resource. If you look at my post times a lot of them were very late at night and that, coupled with working very long hours lately, may have led me to miss some things. For that I apologize and I’ll make sure to go over everything more carefully before posting.
It would be really helpful if you could tell me how to determine which dust cover will fit the JLW, as you told me it has to be a no shaft cover version.
I never said you needed to get a Dust cover for the JLW, all Joysticks have a dust washer.
Hence my earlier statement of you not reading, just skimming though each post. You don’t take the time to read and understand everything.
See that round black plastic circle, that a dust washer All it does is to keep dirt and dust out of the joystick.
You only change this piece out for COSMETIC reasons, like you want a red or clear dust washer instead (or what ever color).
From this link, every JLF mod is explained
If you don’t want to mod your JLF there a number of Joysticks out there you could try.
What joystick, it is subjective as everyone has their own preferences.
No one can decide for you. You need to decide by your self for your own self what path you are to take.
I glad I left out about all the mods I do with your habit of half reading info, you be trying to use JB weld on your joystick next .
Note: Do not apply JB weld to your joystick, I am convinced you have no idea what you are doing.
I didn’t mean need in the sense that it is necessary - I meant need in the sense that you told me, given the fact that I want one, the one I need (to fit the JLW) to buy is “the no shaft cover version”.
I’m not asking, nor do I need anyone to decide anything for me. I already purchased a bunch of different stuff to try moding my JLF with, as well as a few other sticks to try. I never once said "out of these things there - which is better’. I never even asked what was ‘better’ other than brand/type of an item that appeared to be the same thing (like two same sized actuators), which I meant in terms of proper working function and long term reliability. I never asked anyone to decide for me. I feel like I’ve responded to this several times now and I’m getting a little tired of being crapped on for something that I’m not even doing. All I wanted, and got (thanks to everyone who contributed) was information on what it was that I needed to get in order to change the feel of my joystick, as well as what else was worth trying. To reiterate : I did not ever say something akin to ‘which spring will be better for me’, or anything of that nature.
I really don’t appreciate your condescension.
Anywaysssss…I think you got what you came for @Cagan. Good luck with the mods. Might be time to lock this thread. But what do I know?
I’d like to leave it open. That way I can ask questions if I need help with anything once I get everything in the mail. That and I’m sure everyone will want to know what I find I like the best!
I would be interested to hear what stick / mods you all prefer using 
Actually, it would be better to ask your questions on the thread that Dark linked to. This one: JLF and JLF mods explained
To be honest there really didn’t need to be a new thread made for these questions. It’s fine. Not getting on your case or anything. This thread is just off track and is one of many threads just like it.
Would now be a good time to mention the LS-58? 
One of the things I’d like to point out - and maybe this is completely irrelevant, but I have a serious issue with doing the super / ultra motion as ken / ryu. Down forward , down forward + punch constantly comes out as a DP instead of a super / ultra.
One of the things that people have been mentioning since I started asking about different levers / mods is what do I want to accomplish? What kind of feel am I looking for? The truth is, I don’t exactly know what it is that I’m looking for. All I do know is that I like the prospect of ‘flicking’ the joystick more, and that I’ve been playing off and on with the joystick since the original TE was sold in stores and haven’t seen even close to the gains I expect of myself. Granted, all I really did was occasionally practice moves in training mode and play online, which I would mostly lose and subsequently turn off the game. Now I’m taking to the wiki’s / forums and learning / practicing different combos and more advanced techniques. The only ‘advanced’ technique I’ve learned about is plinking and, while conceptually simple enough, I still have a long way to go to get it down. I read somewhere that the best players plink every move that they link (minus lp). I’d be interested to know the validity of that.
I would actually be interested to know about whether or not some of these sticks are ‘better’ than others in terms of how well they are made. For example, I read that the crown just isn’t made nearly as well as the fanta. Conversely (AFAIK) the JLF is supposed to be this incredibly made piece of technology. What about the other popular sticks out there like the Hyubassa, the JLW and those semitsu levers? I’ve heard over and over again that sanwa is the ‘gold’ standard. I’d be interested to know why so many third party companies are primarily using these sanwa parts, where as (again - AFAIK) the only company using (for example) hori parts is hori themselves. That just seems odd to me considering a review like this one. Its not a big deal, but its something I’m curious about.
I also wanted to reiterate how thankful I am to everyone who (positively) contributed to this thread. Your help has made all of this much less overwhelming for me and I’ll be getting my first package(s) tomorrow (its 3 am so I guess today). I’m very excited!
- You can only try and experiment with different control levers on your own… NOBODY ELSE can tell you what’s the comfortable fit for you. You have to figure that out on your own and it may take the better part of a year depending on whether you can afford to buy parts or have access to test them…
- Test across a wide number of games – retro- and current. Not every joystick lever works well with every game out there. Games get tweaked across generations – SF IV does NOT feel SF3 nor do CPS-2 and CPS-1 fighting games play identically. Tekken is as different from Mortal Kombat as that game is from the SF2 series.
The ideal is to get a good joystick lever that plays well with a variety of games… the reality is that some people use different control levers depending on what game they’re playing. - IF you’re going to buy and modify any joystick on-market, you’re better off sticking off with a model that’s in production. That makes sense from the standpoint of spare parts availability when-and-if parts wear or break naturally. There’s no point in buying a joystick that hasn’t been made in over 20 years and isn’t supported by retailers unless you’re a collector.
I don’t personally like the JLF but it’s the best-supported joystick on market as far as after-market/third party parts are concerned. Aside from balltops which pretty much fit any JLF or Seimitsu LS-joystick out there, you have to be aware of what parts are compatible with a particular joystick. Other basic parts like shaft covers are not cross-compatible and have to be modded to fit alternate joysticks if that’s even feasible. The Akihabarashop.jp website has a great (but somewhat out-of-date) catalogue listing with a pop-up menu beside every joystick listed. You can at least see every major part that goes into the JLF and LS-joysticks. - Contrary to what some people think, the Hori Haybusa is NOT a Sanwa JLF clone… The Hayabusa shaft parts may be closely modelled after the JLF’s shaft assembly but Hayabusa has a base assembly and bulk more like the Seimitsu LS-32. It’s a case of copying a successful design BUT coming up with an assembly that has a different feel. Some of us like the Hayabusa better than the JLF and LS-joysticks, some of us don’t. I fall into the former group.
The restrictor gate is a different design and is a molded part of the joystick’s baseplate. (That’s generally been the case with previous OEM joystick designs like the Hori joystick used in the Tekken 5 10th Anniversary Joystick and Ascii joystick levers used in branded Ascii joysticks and the Dreamcast Agetec Joystick.) The gate is NOT intended to be removed or modified with secondary gates like the JLF and LS-joystick restrictor gates. The microswitches are also a different model from the JLF.
Hori designed the Hayabusa to fit into current joystick cases like a JLF with a common flat mounting plate patterned after the JLF’s. That avoids the confusion and inconvenience that occurs with the multiple mounting plate designs the LS-joysticks have.
The worst part of the Hayabusa is the availability… Production is mainlined for the newer HRAP’s that have been released since the beginning of the year. Hori is also a provider for Taito arcade panels. Who knows when or if arcade parts stores are going to be able to regularly get their hands on Hayabusa levers. Hori hasn’t had the control levers available from the US website for at least two months now! - Seimitsu LS-joysticks occupy a zone of confusion, irrational naming schemes and numbering, and general incompatibilities between the LS-lines. The LS-32 is the mainline preferred Seimitsu controller followed by the LS-56 and LS-40 in popularity. They are very different feeling joysticks despite shared design components amongst the types. The higher-numbered LS-joysticks generally have tighter activation zones, tighter roll, and shorter throw than the LS-32 – that does NOT mean they’re more comfortable than the LS-32. Again, it’s a case of having to try on your own and decide what feels more comfortable to you.
The LS-joysticks are solid designs for the most part but fall into three distinct groups with different feel… a) LS-32/LS-34 group; LS-34 is the LS-32 with a Seimitsu shaft cover; b) LS-40; c) LS-56/LS-58/LS-60 with alternate tension springs amongst the designs with higher model numbers getting softer springs.
Try an octagonal gate to help with the ultras.
Note that Focus Attack and Paradise Arcade Shop now both carry Hori Hayabusa sticks.
I haven’t had a chance to read the rest, but I wanted to at least respond to this. I never asked what would be comfortable! Why does everyone keep thinking that? I’ve literally said it over and over that I am NOT asking that. I can not comprehend why people keep thinking that I’m asking for information that I never wanted. I will respond to the rest later.
Freedom : I actually just got the Hayabusa in the mail. I haven’t recieved anything from Paradise, but I did get my focus attack shipment, which included the crown (with harness and bat to ball top converter), the haybuasa, a Kowal 1mm oversize actuator for the JLF, an LS-55 spring to try on my JLF, and a 2lb JLF spring. I started shopping initially on paradise and was intending to get everything there but they were out of a decent amount of stuff. From them I am still awaiting a JLW, a set of cherry switches with modification harness, 1.5 lb / 3 / 4 lb JLF springs, oversized actuator set (metal since they were out of the plastic), and lubricant for the actuators.
I’ve got a ton of stuff to try out! Luckily I have two arcade sticks (TE / TE-S) and I can side by side comparison. I imagine it would be really nice to have one of those Razer Atrox’s right now because of how easy it is to mod.
EDIT: Also, the only fighting game that I play (and intend to play for the time being) is USF4. I’ve tried other fighting games and just didn’t like them. SF4 just has an entirely different, accessible, feel that seems to agree with me.
EDIT 2: Do people mod their Hayubasas? I was told not to mod the JLW. Is the JLF the only stick that is commonly modded?
EDIT 3: I have an octagonal gate on my TE-S, el Presidente.
EDIT 4: I just put the Hayabuasa in my TE - S. I haven’t fully hooked it in yet, but the stick part looks really short. Like there’s a big gap between the top pannel and where the stick starts coming out of the hayubasa metal plate. I looked under my TE washer and, while there is a gap, it doesn’t seem as big. Is that just how its supposed to be? Is the haybasa a shorter stick? Not an issue anymore now that I got it fully hooked in.
EDIT 5: I know this is getting annoying lol, but I have the hayubasa installed. The joystick shaft plastic piece is really mobile. It spins around on the stick a little too much for my liking, where as on my JLF it doesn’t move at all. Is there a different shaft that you’re supposed to get for the hayubasa? Any way to get it to stay still? I’ve tried turning it upside down and it’s helped a bit, but still moves. Thanks
EDIT 6: Does anyone feel that the hayubasa is louder? not with the switches, but the way it hits the side of the top panel when its pushed all the way out. It makes this really loud thumping sound when I push it all the way. The sound is obviously the stick hitting the (plastic?) top panel of the TE -S, but makes an unpleasant, distracting, noise in comparison to the TE with my stock JLF sitting right next to me. Other than that noise, I much prefer the hayubasa compared to the unmodded JLF. I still have a lot more stuff to try, but so far I’m pretty happy that I already found something I really like! The spinning shaft doesn’t bother me much anymore, but the fact that this noise is this loud is really odd. Never mind, I’m a moron. I was using it without the top panel screwed on. After securing it down and screwing it back in the weird noise became normal. Minus the spinning plastic shaft, this hayubasa is great!