I actually disagree with alot of placings, but agree on others. This game I feel is really just about special move utility so if you have at least 2 safe spammable moves then I think you are in good shape. Even better if you have the normals to back it up. Also several chars can whore out Meteo attacks and be safe on block. Piccolo for example I feel is badly placed. I think he is easily top tier. Ugh. I’ll do my own tier list sumtime this week. This game just takes too much time to tier. No practice mode.
Yeah special moves are what seem to do all the practical damage in this game. I didn’t pay much attention to the hyper/meteor moves because most of them can’t be combo’d like you can with specials (unless you get an air juggle) so i didn’t consider it to be that practical to get hit with, but i could be wrong.
I put piccolo in mid mainly because he has really slow normals, and his overall ways to deal damage seemed average, but i’ll look at some things again.
We can compare our results and make a more refined tier list whenever you have yours ready. It would be interesting if i could get this game to work through net play on this emulator
Here is my list with explanations on my changes and my thoughts on certain chars. (i.e the good chars)
Tiers for DBZ UB22
Top Tier: SSJ Gogeta, Perfect Cell, Piccolo, SSJ3 Goku
High Tier: Frieza, SSJ Goku, SSJ Mirai Trunks, SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, Android 18
Mid Tier: Tien, Krillan, Zarbon, Recoome, Android 16, Dabura, Hercule, Super Buu, Fat Buu
Low Tier: SSJ2 Gohan, Supreme Kai, Saiyaman, SSJ Goten, SSJ Trunks, SSJ Gotenks,
Bottom Tier: Kid Goku, Master Roshi
Cell - Solid normals. Very safe specials. Good for getting in and do solid damage. Slide kick special must be blocked low. Close cr.p can be used for hit confirming. His meteo is quick teleport punch with a bit of start-up making it pretty safe to throw out. Definitely one of the better meteos in the game. Solid char over all. Straight forward, but good for solid play.
Fat Buu - Normals have good priority, but he’s certainly not top tier material. His headbutt special is unsafe on block since he recoils in the air on block. Although his normals have good priority their range is meh. His standing punches have good range, but that’s about it. His air dive kick is slow, but pretty safe. His ground dive kick is good for beating ground specials. His air bomber attack is just too damn slow and can really only be used for cross-ups, but its pretty easy to just backdash or reversal on reaction.
SSJ2 Gohan - Nothing special at all. Limbs are too short. Has little range on his normals. All his specials are just too unsafe. His meteo is also nothing special.
SSJ Trunks - Decent normals. Solid moveset overall. 5 kick special is unsafe, but if you combo into it then it does great damage, Flip kick special is safe and beats alot of other stuff when timed well. Slide kick is safe when well spaced, can beat alot of moves and is a solid punisher as well. His energy slash and 5 way ki blast are both good ki moves at mid range. A versatile character overall. Double hand thrust has great priority and invinciblity. Since it’s a charge move and is safe on block it’s a great reversal.
Tien - Has great reach on normals. Flying head butt special is unsafe. HHS is good for combos and chip. Rush special is safe. Not quite as versatile as say Trunks. Decent character though.
SSJ Goku - Decent normals. Has two really good specials. Flip kick special is solid at mid range and very tricky. Can cross up and set-ups for juggles. Dragon kick special is unsafe. He does have a teleport reversal he can use on block though to get out of trouble. So it’s very hard to rush him down when he plays defensively. Elbow charge special is very safe on block and great for 2 in 1s. Good rushdown tool and has good priority. Close cr.p is two hits to that’s good for hit confirming.
Piccolo - Sonic kick special beats so much stuff. Very high priority and very safe. Great for rushdown. Mystical Jet and his Meteo are great for mid range control as are his ki attacks. He is very dominant at mid/long range. His keep away is very strong. He is Dhalsim with worse AA options, but jumping in is terrible in this game so that doesn’t matter. Very strong character. Combo potential is low, but his zoning is top notch.
SSJ3 Goku- Best set of normals in the game. Great dive kick. Low dive kick is awesome with him. Good damage on hit. Good chip and frame trap on block. Up close gives him a solid mix-up since he has a command throw. So he can do command grab, another love dive or do a normal. His command grab does good damage. About 3 times as much as a normal grab. He also has one of the best meteos in the game. He teleports in and combos from there. The first hit is blockable unlike Hyper dimension, but there is no power up animation. Goku just teleports and does the meteo instantly. This means he can punish alot of stuff and his opponents must be careful about throwing out moves around mid/long range.
SSJ2 Majin Vegeta - Similar to Goku in that he is versatile. Solid normals. Better then SSJ Goku’s. Great dive kick, Happens instantly, puts enemy into juggle stage on hit and gives Vegeta alot of frame advantage on block. Elbow charge is unsafe, but it’s two hits so it’s good in combos. Hammer of Vegeta special is good for beating out alot of other specials, but it’s very spacing dependent.
Frieza - Good character. Good kick normals. Nice reach and speed. Dive punch and Tail Swipe are solid specials. Dive is good for getting in and Tail Swipe is nice pressure/combo filler. Another well rounded character. Dive doesn’t give alot of frame advantage on block unfortunately. He’s still very good though.
SSJ Gogeta - At first you think he is really underwhelming. Then you dig a little deeper and you find out he is a monster. Gameplay wise is similar to SSJ3 Goku in terms of gameplay, but with Vegeta’ dive kick. He has good normals as well. His dive kick is amazing. Puts enemies in juggle state. From there he can combo into his kick special for great damage. Very easy to hit confirm. Dive kick also gives frame advantage on block. He can also combo into his kick special off a throw. Even better though is that he can combo into his meteo off a throw. So imagine Rufus rushdown shenanigans + Makoto command grab set-ups/ultra set-ups and Bison level normals. That’s Gogeta. He pokes at you then gets in with that dive and now a vicious mix-up starts. He is a beast.
Couple of extra notes. Krillan doesn’t do great damage, but all his specials are pretty safe and he has a dive kick. I had to move him up for that. Dabura is mid on my lost too, but his meteo is unblockable so that’s plus for him. But his other rushdown tools aren’t great so it’s meh. Won’t comment on most of low tier and Bottom tier. From when I messed with them they seem pretty crappy and not really worth saying much about.SSJ2 Gohan is ass btw. He is too unsafe and many chars have far better normals.
ok i tested more things, this time i used a programmable controller
I took a closer look at Fat Buu. His Air Bomber move definitely has quick start up, it has frame advantage, and he can combo from it, but there are some characters who can counter this move pretty good if they have a good AA, or i think you can also just dash away from it before he comes back down.
The air bomber is a good AA. I found it has invincibility frames starting up, and it beats dive kicks. This was tested against SS3 Goku and Gogeta.
Fat Buu’s dive kick has slight delay, its definitely not as fast as Gogeta’s or Vegeta’s, but its also not slow.
Fat Buu can do about 25%+ damage from a dive kick in the corner with the air bomber.
Main reason i think Fat Buu is so good is because he can put really good pressure on with the air bomber, and at the same time keeps pressure off of him.
He can close in on you easily and once he gets in on you with all those cross ups and mix ups it can be chaotic
After taking another look i agree, I thought his other attributes like his small body frame and his walking speed would make up for his cons, but since specials do the main damage in this game that wasn’t the case
Flip kick sets up for juggles, but from what I’ve seen he can’t get much damage from it, not even in the corner. His elbow charge is only safe on block from a distance, and it has poor priority, any normal can beat it.
His teleport move does look like a useful tool, but his options for damage are still looking average overall
Piccolo’s Sonic kick seems like a decent move for pressure, but it can be beat by crouching kicks from Gogeta, Cell, Future Trunks and probably some others. Small body frames like Frieza, and 18 can crouch under it.
His arm stretch move and most of his other specials do seem like good zoning tools, but only against characters who don’t have a move like a dive kick, or some kind of move to close in with.
The strongest zoning game i think should go to hercule. especially since he doesn’t have to worry about running out of energy
His normals are pretty good, but his close standing punch has absolutely no range, even for an UP CLOSE move its range is horrible. That’s why i think Tien and Gogeta are tied for best normals.
I agree with his mix up. I overlooked his command throw does double damage than a normal throw, and his chip damage on his dive kick is good
The main thing about SS3 Goku is his specials. If he had better specials i would consider him to be better, but im not seeing him go past High tier
Vegeta’s specials are borderline horrible, and unsafe for the most part, his dive kick is good, and gives him good mix up, but that alone isn’t enough. He is pretty much looking like Gogeta with less damage to me.
Gogeta’s combo’s from his throws and dive kicks look like they do about 5%-10%, and thats about average. Im not finding anything more damaging than that, but if he can combo from his throw into hypermove/meteo like you say then that changes things. I’ll see if i can get it to combo later, although i’ve tried it before and it didn’t work
I went and tested Krillin again, all of his specials except for one are horribly unsafe, even when done from a distance
I made some changes to the tier list, this isn’t final or anything yet, Gogeta is undecided until i see he can combo into his hypermove, changes are in bold
Top Tier: Perfect Cell, Fat Buu
High Tier: Frieza, SSJ Mirai Trunks, Android 18, SSJ3 Goku, Tien
Mid Tier: SSJ2 Goku, Piccolo, Zarbon, Recoome, Android 16, Dabura
Low Tier: SSJ2 Gohan, Supreme Kai, Saiyaman, SSJ Goten, SSJ Kid Trunks, SSJ Gotenks, SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, Super Buu, Krillin, Hercule
Bottom Tier: Kid Goku, Master Roshi
Have you played the hacked version that adds in the other 8 characters as playable? I have the IPS around, I’m sure, so I can probably get it to you if you want it. Got it sitting on my Xbox, but haven’t been able to get any actual matches with other people to start figuring out a tier list.
Here’s a summary of the changes:
- Adds Duck, Richard, Tung, Michael, Hwa, Raiden, Billy and Geese to the playable roster (by holding the stick in a certain direction as you press the button to select your character).
- Allows mirror matches at least between ‘bosses’. Haven’t tried Terry/Andy/Joe mirrors.
- Gives the line move ability to players (press P + K), even on 1-line stages. Hilarity ensues if both players try this. Also, the CPU Hwa is fond of leaping into the crowd unprovoked… then again, he is a drunk, so irrational behavior kinda suits him.
Any normal can beat almost any special in UB22 though. Normals have insane hitboxes and active frames.
That’s true for the most part. The elbow charge moves are really easy to beat though. You can pretty much throw any fairly quick normal out and it can be easily stopped, but a move like Piccolo’s sonic kick can only be beat with normals that hit from a specific angle
re:DBZ UB22/DBZ UB27
IIRC I tended to combo into Piccolo’s Sonic Kick with ease, follow up with his “nail’s hand blast” and cover most other encounters with normals xx special to keep opponents around mid range. Also Sonic Kick spam was good for ranged AA effect, good mixups, or avoiding cross ups.
Comboing into his meteo atttack has kept him my fav in most of the older DBZ fighters too. I think I could in this game also. Now i’m going to see if my PS1 can still work/load foreign games
ninja edit: Did F.Trunks’ AI tend to vertical jump a lot? I remember my sister making him jump for hours and then the AI following suit at very random times. I may be mixing that with DBZ Super But?den 2 & 3 though…
I need to play this yesterday. PM me the link.
yeah if you could get it to work that would be cool, we could use more input from different people
SD Hiryuu no Ken
Combo video:
[media=youtube]E8xcRDFxP_4[/media]
I’ve recently began playing SD Hiryuu no Ken (SNES)
It’s a 2D fighter with a wide selection of characters. It has 4 attack buttons, weak and strong kick/punch, a taunt button and an evade button (much like the “sidestep” from Fatal Fury). You can dash and backdash.
There’s a deflection command it’s done by pressing back+taunt at the right time of a poke, there’s some automove counter you can perform when you deflect, but I haven’t figured out how to do them.
You can combo in this game, however the character I play around with doesn’t have many combos. When your combo ends with a command grab, the combo counter doesn’t display it as a combo (even though it is)
You can negative edge special moves.
I’ve been playing around with a character named Powers, which is a Ultimate Warrior look-a-like.
He has 2 special moves:
Running Power Slam (Command grab):
Charge b, then f + Any punch button
Strength of punch determines how far he runs before the grab.
It’s comboable after st.wp or cr.wp
Jumping Spinning Sit-out Side Slam (Command grab)
360 + Any punch button
It’s comboable after most of his pokes.
Can be performed negative edge. Hawk style.
I’ve been fooling around with cr.wp -> negative edge JSSS. Dash-in meaty cr.wp -> negative edge JSSS, but it seems like you can choose which way to roll and also it seems like some characters with dragon punches, can avoid meaties.
Definitely a fun little fighter. You can combo regular throws, since the game allows you to throw people in hitstun. Not sure if you can counter-throw either, since the opponent rarely do it. I’m going to mess around with it some more. The Judo girl seems to be insanely good, almost invisible projectiles and sick command throw…
Piccolo can kiss my ass in almost any DBZ fighter. Long range zoning whore. Yeah I play Sagat in Street Fighter and yeah that’s ironic now shut up. As far as UB22 goes I really only cared about Gohan’s position and Gogeta’s the most. The others I can let go just because this game sucks ass. It’s just fuckin bad and many placements are debatable IMO anyways. I don’t think this game is about combos. Just easy highly spammable moves and being able to pressure well and get in well. If you say Fat Buu can do this well, then I’ll concede. Also ALOT of moves have invincibility. Every char has at least one I think. Saiyans usually have 2. SSJ3 Goku has like 4 or sum shit lol. Hit confirming is just plain hard in this game and unreliable unless you have a 2 hit move. Ok moving on.
Gonna tier one of the best DBZ fighters IMO. The Mega Drive version of the Butouden games. Had an awesome soundtrack, slightly better graphics with more effects going on and better sound. Fights flowed better IMO and the game is also more balanced then Shin Butouden 2, but just as fast paced if not more so. With turbo speed on game is fast paced and just plain fun IMO. Tiers are more compressed as well. Only a one char out right sucks imo.
All dive attacks hit overhead and everyone has a slide kick so that gives several chars a pretty easy and rewarding mix-up when they are pressuring. All sweeps knock down in this game too unlike Butouden 2. There are far less ki attacks as well. Overall I just like the more offensive nature of the game. Only one flaw IMO, but it really sucks. This game has the same throw system as MK. Just block and you can’t be thrown. Yeah, I know it’s garbage. Luckily chip damage is a viable threat in this game which makes people not wanna sit on block all day so that opens the door for throws and several chars have good mix-ups. Anyway, here are the tiers.
DBZ Buyuu Retsuden
Top Tier: SSJ2 Gohan, Piccolo, SSJ Trunks
High Tier: SSJ Goku, Krillin
Mid Tier: USSJ Vegeta, Android 18, Frieza, Perfect Cell
Low Tier: Ginyu
Bottom Tier: Recoome
SSJ2 Gohan - This is a game where his short stature actually does something. Normals are meh, but his special moves rock. Good slide kick since he is short. Great dive kick. Multi kick special is great chip as is multi punch special. He does huge chip damage. Great dive kick. Very safe on block and leaves him in position to mix-up with slight frame advantage. The ki attacks ghe does have kick ass. Shockwave is low to the ground and beats ground specials. Invisible blast has great speed and also beats basically anything and sends enemies flying. He can also teleport from anywhere on screen to right behind his opponent. Just a flat out beast. Very similar to his Butouden 2 incarnation, but I actually like this Gohan more thanks to the game’s engine and the mix-up potential he has.
Piccolo - Another character that remains strong from his transition from Butouden 2 to this game. Same good normals and his dive kick is buffed thanks to the games engine. Another char with a great slide kick thanks to it’s hitbox. Has the ki shockwave and his Sonic Kicks are solid. Two kicks that can combo when done at far range. Great for pressure and Piccolo is left at a safe distance away usually on block and he do it again, dive, rush in for pressure, etc. Very good options from his Sonic Kicks. Lunge back elbow has good priority, so it’s good to do occasionally, but it’s not amazing. Just ok. Mystic Shocker has been nerfed slightly since it doesn’t put enemies into huge stun for a free meteo anymore. The range however did get buffed and it’s very deceptive. this move beats out pretty much any physical attack. Overall he’s a very strong character.
SSJ Trunks - I dunno if they meant to make Trunks this good, but he is disgustingly good in this game. He’s like Goku and Gohan combined basically. Dive kick is just a single strong kick. Not as buff as Gohan or Piccolo, but still a good option. Two safe specials that do good chip. Double kick and 4 punch rush. Has a ground shock wave too. His slide kick is the best in the game as well since he goes completely horizontal and it has stupid huge range. Normals are decent. Also his ground explosion attack is good for controlling close range. He’s just…damn good period. The weaknesses he had in Super Butouden 2 of lacking good safe rushdown is gone. He’s the perfect well rounded character this time around.
SSJ Goku - Good normals. Decent slide kick and dive kick. 4 kick special has a gap after the third hit which leaves Goku wide open as he spins around. So an opponent can grab him out of it which sucks. This limits his rushdown to just fishing for damage with pokes from frame traps and 50/50’s with dive kicks, sweeps, and throws. He has 3 rapid fire ki blast and invisible ki blast but they are both charge moves which limits their utility a bit. His lunge back elbow is ok as a defensive move or baiting tactic, but not good for starting an offense. He has the teleport dash, same as his son. One awesome great thing about him is that he has Taiyoken. He can stun someone long enough for a quick hit or Meteo attack. Solid character overall.
Krillin - He’s like a short Goku, with slightly worse normals but better rushdown. His 6 hit rush special is good and does nice chip. His diving headbutt doesn’t knockdown, but gives slight frame advantage so it’s not great but still decent. He has Taiyoken the same as Goku.
USSJ Vegeta - Still has his cross up elbow attack, but it’s slower this time around. Solid normals. His angled aerial kick special must be blocked high, so up close he gets a very basic but effective mix-up between double kicks, sweep or throw. If he gets a knockdown he gets another chance. Has several ki attacks. Ground explosion is good and reliable. No dive kick or good rush special hurts him the most, especially since Vegeta has always been a rushdown char in Butouden style DBZ games.
Frieza - Really good normals. Kicks have great range and punches are nice as well. Specials are somewhat lackluster, but has several options. No dive kick. Specials don’t do enough chip and he has no rushdown special.
Perfect Cell - Good normals with great range on his kicks. Sliding double kick and headbutt specials are solid rush down and safe on block. No dive kick though so that hurts him at range. He has some good ki moves though and a ground explosion he can use from the air which is interesting.He’s ok, nothing spectacular though.
Android 18 - She barely misses high tier IMO. Shes somewhat tricky since she can leap over an opponent and shoot them in the back with a ki blast as a cross up. Her dive kick launches her into a 3 hit combo on hit or block. It’s safe on block and does good damage on hit but the last hit is blockable. Also sometimes it will just whiff as she is comboing or she will go behind her opponent leaving her wide open. She has good ki attacks, but her other specials are mediocre and she lacks a good one for rushing down.
Ginyu - Poses for one of his specials making it useless. Has good ki moves and ok normals. Rush kick special is hella fast, but it whiffs completely when done too close. No dive kick, but he has a 3 hit rush special that can cross up on the last hit when done close to an opponent. He’s not terrible, there are simply much better characters to choose from.
Recoome - If grabs weren’t blockable he would probably be god tier or close to it. As it stands they are blockable so his command grabs are basically useless. Also he poses before his other specials. Good normals, but other then that he is garbage.
Yeah i know this game is bad, but im a hardcore fighting game fan and i play almost anything as long as it has decent mechanics. Gogeta is looking average to me unless he can really combo into Meteo, which i have yet to test. There’s pretty much no dive kicking Fat Buu with his air bomber, i think its the best AA in the game, and its highly abusable (up close) unless the character has a good AA.
UB22’s mechanics are hella trash though. That’s why it sucks lol. Actually, that’s not fair. It has reversals, it has tick throws, but the way the implemented normals and cancels is stupid. Cancel timing is way too strict and it’s hard to buffer shit and the reward for doing this shit isn’t even really there. The game is just spam when both people know what they are doing.
I’d really like to try that! Thank’s for telling me about it.
Well the biggest flaw is the jumping imo, its like there’s no gravity or something, so unless you get a knockdown or have a dive kick there’s no jumping in
The game overall is bad, but the actual mechanics are average, it has the basic rock/paper/scissors which is the most important thing
Wow you can BLOCK throws? Thats a pretty big flaw, that means no rock/paper/scissors
You can block throws in competitive UMK3 and that game is by far one of the most fast paced exciting fighting games anyone could ever have the pleasure of watching. Being different from normal FG mechanics is fine as long as the game can make up for it and Buyuu Retsudan does just that. Also throws in Butouden games means jackshit anyways since throw tech window is fuckin huge, you should pretty much never take damage from throws anyway.
I know this is from way back but let me say this.
If you are hit by SSJ4 Gogeta, unless your character has amazing defense or more than 3-5 health bars, Gogeta can unleash a combo that literally drains 3-5 health bars depending on the character. The down side is that he takes damage like a bitch.
Uhh, I have the IPS files you’ll need, if you want to give this a try. You’ll need to find a way to apply them yourself, though.
It’s a format that contains only the changes made to the game, so it’s not ROM distribution.
I need to dig out the command list and the directions necessary for the various characters.
I THINK, though, it’s:
:ub: - Duck
:uf: - Richard
:db: - Michael
:df: - Tung
:l: - Hwa
:r: - Raiden
:d: - Billy
:u: - Geese
I was kinda confusing there. Just PM me the stuff and hopefully I’ll work it out.