That’s depressing. I was thinking of getting into the game by playing Engineer, but after hearing that…
That’s for comp play, you can playing any class that you want on pubs, especially Engie since they’re almost always welcome in a pub.
Oh, is that a fact? Never mind then. I don’t think I could get into competitive play, but goddamn, Team Fortress 2 is fucking fun.
TF2
Top:
Soldier - Great maneuverability, great damage, great health. The perfect class pretty much. They only really struggle at long range, but that’s what rocket jumps are for.
Demo - Struggles up close sometimes, but only really against Scout. Pipe bombing a grounded soldier shouldn’t be hard.
High:
Scout - Delicate as fuck, but a great destructive force. Can two shot most (good) classes at the best of times, and four shot them at the worst. Providing Sandman is allowed, they become pretty retarded with stun.
Medic - Makes every other class a lot better, good health. Surprising attack capacity. Good movement speed. A no brainer really.
Sniper - Can make or break an assault. Very lightweight and typically weak upclose, they act as well as the player controlling. Headshot kills are too good to overlook.
Mid:
Pyro - Very strong up close. High Damage. Can outclass soldier in many cases. Struggles at many ranges.
Low:
Heavy - Very strong at close to mid range. Slow moving and ridiculously easy to hit. Far too easy to kill by the top classes. With poking, even the Medic can take him down.
Engineer - Helpful through teleports and lv3 dispensers. But the stationary nature of all buildings (bar teleport) makes them far too easy to destroy. They help dissuade scout play, but don’t last long.
Bottom:
Spy - Utterly unhelpful. Good players and teams almost never get fooled by spies. The potential for instant kills is far overshadowed by low health, weak attacking power, average mobility and ability to slowly destroy engineer buildings. Uses are few and far between.
We did Tekken Bowl, how about Tekken Ball (volleyball in Tekken 3?). I imagine that Law would be top tier with how he owns the front of the court with his flip kicks. Jack would probably be up there too with his height and long limbs that make it so you can attack them from the net better and stop balls that would normally go past his head. I’ll play around with it more and see if I can come up with something.
I’d personally bump down the Qubeley units and bump up Char’s Gelgoog. Probably bump down Wing Zero to mid too.
Gelgoog is stupid for both crowd clearer and general rape. Smack a beam rifle buff on him and C2 is too good. C4 does decent but most of the time you’ll be using C2 and C3.
I just hate Qubeleys honestly. Only thing I see them good for is C2 and C4. Maybe cause I just ignored the qubeley line after fappin to Haman but I just hated their general moveset.
Wing Zero doesn’t do it for me. He’s passable as a crowd clearer but everyone else in the top do it better. Against a General I guess he could hang. lvl3 Musou rapes both crowds and generals. But I don’t think that’s enough to warrant him top.
everything else I can agree on though. But I know you’re doing it off your opinions.
EDIT: Anyone do a Sengoku 3 Tier list? I had on back in the day but I want to see what others think.
Borderlands
PvE
Top
-
Mordecai - Bloodwing pretty much 1-hit kills everything if specced into, which you should since being a Sniper and Gunslinger tree specialist is a waste of points. All he’s good for is damage, but he does the most
-
Lilith - She’s versatile because she can be a CC, damage dealer, or defensive specialist. She also does high damage, though not as high as Mordecai. She is kinda gimped at the start, but becomes probably the best character once she’s Lv. 30. Lilith also has the only viable AoE build
Mid
- Roland - He’s a support specialist, but does respectable damage if you mix Infantry into his spec, which you should so that you can do damage. His turret rapes indoors because it provides a good shield if you duck and eats shields in small hallways and chokepoints. Roland will always be able to find a team because he can generate ammo or heal depending on spec.
Low
- Brick - I main Brick, and I know he’s horrible after the first playthrough. His Berserk will get you killed really fast and is just a heal button, since its suicide to charge at certain enemies with your fists. His Blaster tree is butt since there aren’t a lot of good rockets until the late game and the rockets are too expensive in shops for what they do. The only way Brick will find a group is if he main specs as a Tank, which sucks since his best Tier 3 Tank talent doesn’t work right now.
PvP: The PvP sucks in this game, so play CoD:MW2 for PvP, but here you go
Top
-
Mordecai - Bloodwing kills everything in at most 2 hits except an invisible Lilith or a Tank Brick with an excellent shield
-
Lilith - She can murk shit in 1 hit if she’s specced for Phasestrike and you melee people in the head after Phasewalking. She can also make people unable to fight effectively if she’s a Controller build because Mind Games and a gun with a good rate of fire will keep people perma-dazed
Mid
Not playing the PvP in this game
Low
-
Brick - Same problems that apply to PvE are magnified in the PvP.
-
Roland - He fails at PvP because his turret is easy to dodge and his support and medic trees are both ass for PvP and the Infantry tree is only average for damage.
The concept of having a tierlist for a game as team-dependant as tf2 is ludicrous to me, maybe could work for a pub where most players seemingly control the game with a steering wheel but even then the above seems quite wrong; spies are gods on (bad) pubs, demos and heavies are generally more effective than soldiers, engies do nothing but create stalemates and the list goes on.
There was a similar discussion on the insomnia forums but since those are maintained by a (very amusing) troll I cba discussing it over there.
In organized 6v6 games scouts are key because: them beating the opponents’ scouts determines wether they can get behind and flank the enemy combo, or wether you’re going to get back-capped (and/or your medic raped) as you push in (phrased differently: if your scouts die to their scouts you can’t push in and have to wait for your scouts to respawn, or your opponent to push you back). Also for back-caps, main killing force, picking off wounded people, chasing the medic- scouts can do most everything other classes can, and they’re very good at almost all of it.
Soldiers are quite important because: their sole purpose is to protect the medic (and demo, depending on team-strategy and map; some teams have the demo sticking closer to the combo, others have him going with the scouts and so on) and they’re the main reason the team moves or falls back. For reasons of protection, for reasons of man-advantage, for reasons of spam-capability…there’s many reasons why soldiers are needed (actually just one: a class limit of 2 for scouts /bitter sarcasm). Some teams run a suicide-soldier or a roaming- and pocket-soldier depending on strat and map, but generally they work together and switch position to whatever is needed.
The demo is vital because: he locks shit down, obviously. As you get to higher levels of play sticky-traps become less and less effective, but never useless. They’re just more of a means of area denial than getting a cheap kill. Next, even more important: spam. The limit for demomen in all leagues caring about is 1. Take the hint. All a demo has to do to be an asset is stand by and spam like mad. Great demos are versatile, very mobile, spammy, have crazy nade-aim, get to the middle CP at about the same time as the scouts- they’re just always present and laying down a constant stream of damage on the opposing team.
Medic: self-explanatory. Calls stuff he sees and dies a lot.
Engies, spies, pyros, snipers and heavies do see some use, but they’re very situational just because their usefulness is depending on terrain and the surprise-effect, and because those classes just aren’t very good at doing anything worthwhile against an organized team (sniper may be the exception on that last one).
The beauty of competitive TF2 is that the higher you get, the tighter the teamplay (duh). There’s worlds difference between a top team and a team seeded just 1 division lower. Let’s take the biggest league as an example, the top team in ETF2L were (and are) Team Dignitas for several seasons, the number 2 team in that very same top division can’t even touch them. Teamplay is everything in tf2, classes don’t matter half as much as tactics, speed and good decision-making. Top TF2 players are on point all the time, no faffing about.
Lots of people don’t know too much about how the 6v6 setup works so I figured I may as well give a short insight, hope I didn’t come off as too condescending. :looney:
To come back to pubs, it’s obvious that most people playing on them are casual players that aren’t very good at using mice. Nothing wrong with that per se but someone who lacks in aim and situational awareness will do equally bad at soldier as he will at scout. He may get some spam-kills but most likely won’t help his team win since he probably doesn’t know what the class he’s playing is supposed to do, or how to organize/follow a push. There’s some servers in europe (Hampshire Heavies, SpecialAttack, Uberium) where people actually use microphones to coordinate and that’s when pubs are enjoyable and a tierlist may kick in but since most of those servers see lots of league- and experienced FPS-players that point is moot.
I’m going to try my hand at Mass Effect class tiers. This is the tier list for classes as they are, meaning no bonus talents. However, even with bonus talents, not much changes.
1. Sentinel
There’s not much of a debate here. The Sentinel is far and away the best class in the game. Considering that Mass Effect borrows its pistol from the first Halo, a Sentinel doesn’t even need other weapons to be disgustingly effective. A Bastion Sentinel is absolutely devastating, with Stasis Specialization allowing you to pummel opponents even as Stasis is active. Combine that with Overload, and you can kill Saren Arterius in less than a minute. I’ve seen motherfuckers do it. It’s insane.
2. Vanguard
The choice for the number two spot was difficult, but I ended up giving it to the Vanguard because it is a perfect balance of unstoppable crowd control and insane damage output. A Vanguard can immobilize entire rooms of enemies in seconds, and with Adrenaline Burst, he can do it multiple times in quick succession. Combine that with Barrier, Shield Boost, and medium armor, which allow for a great deal of protection, and you have an awe-inspiring offensive force.
3. Adept
An Adept is almost like a light Vanguard. While a Vanguard has access to neither Singularity nor Stasis, an Adept will find himself constantly running for cover much more than a Vanguard will, making this class extremely defensive by nature. As a result, your enemies will not be dying anywhere near as quickly. That said, of the defensive classes, the Adept is certainly the best. Once again, with a pistol in hand, you have little need for much else.
4. Infiltrator
Yes, I put Infiltrator over Engineer, and here’s why. While the Engineer has every tech power in the game, the Infiltrator is little more than an Engineer who sacrifices a tech power or two for the ability to take much more damage. In addition, Infiltrators have access to Immunity, which is one of the best defensive powers in the game, and the cruelly underappreciated sniper rifle, which is unbeatable at dispatching enemies from incredible distances. Yes, you can snipe with an assault rifle or a pistol, but a sniper rifle allows you to kill geth shock troopers from 500+ meters away before you can say “boom, headshot.”
5. Engineer
The Engineer is still a class that has its merits. It benefits very heavily from the Medic specialization, which makes it a powerful defensive class that will admirably compliment offensively inclined squad mates, especially Ashley or Wrex. The Engineer is possibly the single most fragile class in the game, however, which means that you will, without doubt, be in cover for most(if not all) of every battle.
6. Soldier
Despite the fact that I’ve placed it last, let me stress right now that the Soldier is by no means bad. It’s just not as good as the other five classes. While the Soldier is the single toughest class in the game(heavy armor + Immunity specialization) and has access to every weapon(I have a bitchin’ shotty/sniper build), that’s all a Soldier has. A Soldier has no crowd control and no means to bypass enemies with high shields. It’s all about weapon-play. Is that a bad thing? Not at all. However, without special abilities to deter your foes, you’re going to run into trouble more often than the other five classes.
Team work carries over far more than classes do, but these are more of my thoughts on aggregate matchups. A lot of what you say is true, but bad players have never determined tier lists, have they?
I’m no stranger to CEVO league and the such-like, but I’m not as experienced there. Even so a lot of what you say seems to conform with my thoughts. Whilst the Scouts can cause a bigger effect with flashes of brilliance than you might see from the Soldier, it doesn’t necessarily change the fact that Soldier might be stronger. For example: the Spy cap. In that instant the Spy has made the game - but he is still the worst class in the game.
I suppose you might see the Scouts float to the top in the absence of Pyros/hurf/beefy classes, in the same way that he benefits from the reduced number of players, but again, this list considers all classes and a wide range of player counts.
Yeah, that’s the thing right there, scouts are not weaker than soldiers unless on 24+ man servers where they constantly eat random spam. Good scouts have a very good chance to beat a soldier in 1v1 combat (it’s as much a 2 shot for a good scout as it is a 2shot for him to get killed; if the scout’s not that great he can still easily wear the soldier down from a distance where rockets are very easy to dodge). So really, soldier is not necessarily a more powerful (or influential) class at all, the only saving grace is spam- that’s why a pub tierlist isn’t representative of a classes strength at all imo. Soldiers are a (soft) counter to scouts in comp only because of the ability to physically push (juggle) them away from the medic, and because the soldiers are overhealed most of the time as medic-guards. Any other class could benefit from communication just as much and know the scout is incoming, and kill him.
I should say, all of this of course isn’t some sort of generally agreed upon universal truth, just my opinion after playing (a mediocre) soldier in comp for 1.5 years.
Yes but I don’t agree fully. :razzy:
It’s the exact same thing as with the above, in comp they may be one of the worst classes simply because they rely on being unseen, surprise-effect and chaos (and because scouts can do his job, and more). None of the three happen a lot when 2 organised teams meet, though, but on pubs he can be very effective and easily be MVP.
I guess I’m just trying to say again that I don’t think a pub tierlist is very useful (at least not to people that are interested enough in improving that they look up a tierlist :P); then again they may just be able to co-exist. :lol:
The list more acts as credit tier list, i.e. you are more likely to help your team win (over a range of scenarios) if you pick the Demoman to the Sniper, and while the list perhaps suggests the same is true of Soldier > Scout, it might change depending on the scenario, e.g. Granary (or any 5 point CP map for that matter).
But it is more true to say that the overall class structure of your team makes a bigger difference.
subscribe to thread… man i feel like this could be the third time i’ve tried to subscribe to this.
Twisted Metal 4 tiers?
I’d say Adept > Sentinel on the first playthrough because of Singularity and Master Marksmanship. Overload has more use in harder difficulties, and that, along with Sentinel being able to grab Singularity, makes the two classes more even (if not Sentinel taking the lead). However, for standard play, Sentinel’s only real edge is on the Luna mission.
Soldier > Engineer on the harder difficulties because the difference in survivability is too great to ignore. Plus, Singularity is viable for a Soldier because of Adrenaline Burst.
Otherwise, I’d pretty much agree, especially considering Infiltrator vs. Engineer. I’d go a little something like:
S+: Adept / Sentinel
S: Vanguard
A: Infiltrator / Soldier
B: Engineer (Survivability is an issue on the harder difficulties)
Thanks for that. I don’t know much about any of the ‘pure’ classes(Soldier, Engineer, Adept). The hybrids are my favorites.
Yeah, Kaori was so damn OP. I remember smoking my friend with her, because her Ubers were so ridicolously quick that she could sometimes get 3 or 4 off in the air whilst nearly all the other characters could do 1 at best.
Anyone know the Tier List for Puzzle Quest: Gallactrix?
dragon ball
Dragon ball z
Dragon ball gt
lets goo!!
Continuing my Mass Effect tier lists, I’d like to make a little chart of the best bonus talents for each class.
Adept
The best bonus talent for an Adept is Electronics for two reasons. Firstly, the shield strength will greatly benefit an Adept’s Barrier ability as well as keep an Adept safe enough to flee if the barrier is destroyed. Secondly, Overload is one of the best powers in the game, allowing Shepard to attack an opponent’s shields directly and greatly hasten the death of almost any foe. If I had to choose a second, it would probably be Shotguns. Shotguns provide stopping power, which is the only thing that the insanely overpowered pistol lacks.
Sentinel
This was a tricky decision for me to make at first, because what do you give to the man who has everything? After much deliberation, I figured that the only way you could amp up an already broken-ass class would be to give him Singularity. Singularity allows for crowd control that borders on absurd, plus nifty tech powers let you knock out pretty much everything. For a more tech-focused Sentinel, the obvious choice would be Hacking. Hacking is possibly the most potentially destructive of all the tech talents, making it a mirror of the extremely effective Singularity in biotics.
Vanguard
Singularity. Fuck everything else. Next.
Infiltrator
The Infiltrator is like the Vanguard in that the only thing it’s missing is the most potentially earth-shaking power of its type(other than combat, obviously). In that light, there’s little reason to have an Infiltrator with anything other than Hacking. Were I to choose another talent, it would be Medicine, because Neural Shock is one of the most effective ways to deal with those infuriating krogan.
Engineer
I have little experience with this class, but it seems to be at its best while playing a support role. With that in mind, I thought it would benefit a class that lacks a ‘panic button’ attack to specialize in Shotguns. If an Engineer is attacked up-close by a bullrushing krogan or a loose drone, a shotgun is the quickest and safest way to take it out. A second choice for an engineer’s bonus talent would be the biotic Barrier. With Barrier, an engineer can afford to actually pop out of cover once or twice. Imagine that.
Soldier
My Soldier build is outfitted with Electronics for Overload and the shield strength. It also allows Shepard to equip an omni-tool, which means that an additional shield bonus is granted if you’re using Savant, the best omni-tool model. With those two things, there’s no real reason to use any other bonus talents, although I have, surprisingly enough, see some pretty awesome shit with a Soldier that took Warp. A Solider that uses Warp would be very focused on mid-range DPS, though, and would be ill-suited to choose any weapon specialization other than pistols.
Taking this into account, Sentinel elevates itself to the best class in the game, followed by Vanguard. Lift, Throw, and Singularity are arguably the only biotic talents that matter, and both a Sentinel and a Vanguard have more to do after that than an Adept does. An Infiltrator also becomes much better, possibly even third place behind Sentinel and Vanguard. Overall, the hybrid classes are better than the pure classes, although, as I said before, every class is extremely effective.
Fuck it, I’ll try to do it my damn self (hey I know this game wasn’t that good, pretty much marked the end of the TM franchise)
God
Sweet Tooth: Special can take like 3/4’s of your life, set you on fire, and can home in. Very fast, great handling, great armor, this guy simply can’t be fucked with this time around.
Top Tier
Minion: He’s still a force to be reckoned with, he’d be gdlk if he wasn’t seemingly toned down from his TM2 days. His special is still deadly and can still freeze and all that, he’s about as fast as sweet, very good armor. Just a bitch to take down.
Super Thumper: The CPU just doesn’t know how to use him. He matches sweet in speed, and his special can set you on fire. The another problem with his special is that it last for a long time, so if freezes you and sets out them flamethrowers expect to lose A LOT of life.
Mid Top
Moon Buggy: His special is a BIG issue. If he chains two together and you can’t hyperspace outta it, you’re fucked. They even track you down too, so you’re never safe with him around. He’s kinda fast but doesn’t really excel at armor and handling.
Super Axel: Think Quatro he just trades in speed for a little more defense and power. His special isn’t that good but it can set you on fire I think.
Orbital: Finally a starters car! Good orbital players can beast, and I mean flat out beast. His special cause NO damage, so why is he here? Well, it freezes. Anything caught in the blast gets frozen, and if orbital is packing good weapons he can be a problem. He’s fast, and has great handling. He has average armor though.
Super Auger/Slamm Combination: Both are stronger than Crusher. Problem is that their special can still be hyperspace out of. Most just freeze then drill/smash opponents. They aren’t fast, but together they are formidable.
Mid
Calypso: This guy is slow as hell, and cannot turn real good. But outta all starting vehicles open to the player his special causes the most damage. If hit correctly, it’s right up there with Sweet Tooth 
!!! Has great armor too, so he can take punishment. He’s still a BIG target, you aren’t gonna miss many power missiles fighting him. And his nuke specials can even take himself out if he’s silly enough to detonate while he’s nearby. Beware, his special can and will set you on fire.
Crusher: Stronger Trash Man, weaker than Auger/Slamm though.
RC Car: Not fast and has terrible armor. Watch out for his special though, if you get hit by the full ray gun it will take a chunk of life and set you on fire.
General Warthog: Nobody in this game sets traps like this guy, he can really plan up some shit to take you out. Proximity, Remote Bomb, even his special can take a lot of life if it’s detonated while you are under. No speed, very good armor, cannot turn good. He’s a starters car, but still gotta rank him somewhat up there.
Mid Low
Captain Grimm: He’s fast, and his special can set you on fire. The problem is that he has NO armor! And his special is inaccurate too.
Google Eyes: Think of a weaker Super Thumper, and his special doesn’t last longer than his. He doesn’t really excel in anything, but he isn’t weak at speed or nothing in particular. Watch out for his special though, that acid is deadly upon impact.
Mr. Zombie: Another starter with no armor at all. His handling is damn near PERFECT though, so he can turn those corners effortlessly. He’s not fast, and his special is a bit hard to land. It can set you on fire though, also it can drain life while orbital’s cannot.
Trash Man: The “Zangief” of this game. If he grabs you with his special, hyperspace or face some big damage. It’s nothing like Slamms, Augers, or Crushers though. Has no speed and very little handling (hey it’s a garbage truck)
Low
Meter Maid: Her bio is hot lol, anyway she has one of the most annoying specials in the game. It zaps your life, and transfers it to her. It’s not very damaging, and she has horrible armor and average speed/handling.
Quarto: He’s fucking fast AND has great handling, a rarity in this game. His special isn’t great and you always gotta be near the opponent for full damage. Also, yet another character with shitty armor. Armor is a must in this game.
Pizza Boy: Good handling, that’s about it really. His blades special is accurate, but not very damaging. Everything else is just average at best with him.
The Joness: Average. Average. Average. Even their special, those missiles, are average (they can home on you though). They don’t excel at ANYTHING. Low tier car, funny family.
Drag Queen: Lol pretty much the same special as Super Thumper, but Thumpers takes A LOT more. S/he has TERRIBLE handling, not a good car by any means. Lots of low tier cars! No wonder this game is shitty.
Shit Tier
Microblast: This game wouldn’t be complete without a shit tier. And this little bastard is it, his special doesn’t do much of anything and it runs out fast! Not good. No armor, which fucking sucks. Seriously STRONG hits from something and he’ll be in danger. He has pretty good speed and handling though, but his car is too small and gets destroyed seemingly with ease. Don’t chose him.