Tiers for non-fighting games?

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
1301

Question

Your post rocks!

1302

From what I’ve seen, speed runners typically use Rise form because of the ease in getting the form and because of its awesome triple slash. It does the most damage to bosses over the smallest amount of time compared to all the other other forms (save Ultimate).

1303

I wasn’t aware speed runs allowed forms outside of default form.

Ummm…I’m not seeing why you say rise is so great. Let’s look at the stats:

Normal form slashes do 4 points of damage on the first slash, 4 on the second and 5 on the last. Rise does 4 points on the first, 4 on the second and 6 on the last. That’s really earth shattering. And many bosses don’t even give the luxury of standing still long enough to finish the combo, making it irrelevant; charged slashes are the way to go and rise form does not effect those. From your reasoning, you’d be better off with power form, since especially the later bosses move around so much, single hit slashes and mobility are key.

In fact, I would go with X form, because I keep the default slash power but can benefit from the increased buster attack as well.

1304

Thought it was 4+4+4 vs. 4+4+6, but I see your point. I’ll have to rewatch those videos and see exactly why Rise was chosen over the others.

1305

Please link me if you find them. I had planned to do some speed runs on the MMZ games and wanted to see how others went about it (allowed forms, EX skills, always went for S rank, etc.)

1306

In general, you can do a speedrun with whatever conditions you want. If you look through whats there, theres usually a separate run for each game with different characters, different rank/completion goals, ect.

1307

Hmmm…here’s what my personal conditions would be:

  • Allow Form system
  • No sub tank usage
  • Go for S and A Rank
  • Use no Cyber Elves (which would lower your grade anyway)
  • Elemental Chips are okay
  • EX skills are fine
1308

Are you for real? Do you even know what a tier list is?

1309

Anybody have tiers for F-Zero GX?

1310

Game was pretty balanced as I recall, but I remember Black Bull and Queen Meteor being two of the best machines.

1311

Why?

1312

Summoner 2

[ S ] Maia (34) , Sangaril (30)
[ A ] Morbazan (23), Iari (21)
[ B ] Yago (14), Neru (12)
[ C ] Taurgis (6)

Based on how people ranked them on the Summoner 2 board (including me). I like how this turned out, the numbers are pretty significant.

Some quotes of what people said:

Maia

  • “can do anything basically, D:Fire is great for everything and Necromancy rocks” - Globe_199
  • “Maia is first up as she has both physical and a strong magical attacks to work with. I found that as long as no energy using creatures were around I could use the blood summon to get out of any situation.” - Shadow_Throw
  • “I love Maia, because the summons allow her a diversity of abilities, and once you get the last summon and the ring, she seems to excel at any of the three named places I like to go.” - Imhotep

Sangaril:

  • “able to Paralyze+Backstab by herself, as well as use Deadly Venom for instant kills - couple with the Dagger of Death and the Labyrinth of Guardians is a cake walk” - Globe_199
  • “Her back stab and her poisons stand out as being pretty good. Back stab is a little bit situational having to catch the enemy from behind, paralyzed or frozen. Luckily she has stealth based abilities which help her there and the ability to paralyze with one of her special attacks. Poisons will only work with swords or daggers which leave off long range attacks. Also save for one poison which is costly to use they all only disable the enemy in one way or another. She also happens to have the ability to steal which is an interesting ability to say the least. Really good but not great.” - Shadow_Throw
  • “while I use Yago and Iari more often, they are only able to be amazing because of Morbazan’s help. Sangaril has too many options at her disposal, whether it’s instant death or huge chunks of damage. I love to use her, but in places where I prefer to control someone else, I find Sangaril to be a burden on the party (as I find most computer-controlled melee).” - Imhotep

Morbazan:

  • “Soul Consume is a cheap way to finish off an enemy. D:Blood is godly, but he doesn’t get Explosion or Heal, which gives Yago the edge over him, especially in the Labyrinth of Guardians.” - Globe_199
  • "Morbazan is great during normal gameplay, his ONLY flaw is that he doesn’t have “Cure. Morbazan is a much better healer than Maia because he has Vitalize(Soul Consumption). Lets not forget Redemption(Soul Consumption) and Sacrifice which replenishes both Hp & Ap!!! Maia only has heal which is ok at the beginning of the game, but not enough for the rest of the game.” - ninjanickx
  • “Thanks to a combo of blood discipline and pain he makes a wonderful three element caster whom is actually boosted. His other asset Soul consumption can be used for great for just using spells or creating soul gems for the mud weapons and Irai. While the former is really outclassed by weapons the later can be used to make a character that can tear through anything without a scratch. He also has ice magic for freeze.” - Shadow_Throw
  • “Because of the advancement and farming seem to be great with Morb in the party, I choose him most of the time. Advancing the game, Morbazan is variety in a handbag…whether he needs to cast something non-elemental or he’s facing something that needs to die instantly, he’s able to help out. For farming, Morbazan is my favorite. Taking souls with the hammer has allowed me to buff out some kind of crazy with the old man and Iari.” - Imhotep

Iari:

  • “just equip her with the Red gem from the Tome of the Nhuvasarim and a Purple gem from Khargathalan, then Spine Stab to own everything. A bit slow, though” - Globe_199
  • “I’m not putting Iari in the bottom, but I can’t place her in the top either. She’s really a wild card. She has a gem that gives her resistances and stat adjustments. With her supreme arm she gets two gems. Her power comes from the soul gems Morby can create. Thus the power she is is directly proportional to how much time you spend on collecting souls.” - Shadow_Throw
  • “she is slower than Steiner from ffix. Her skills at instant death and huge damage numbers are great, but having to charge/aim can be a pain. Also, I found it problematic to see ghosts in her aiming mode. Somehow, green vision and ghosts do not go hand in hand. However, with Morbazan tricking out some gems for her (which take understandably forever), she has more stats than she can handle. Also, she has a limited skill set that leave her with lots of leftover points earlier than anyone else.” - Imhotep

Yago:

  • “may not have the “oomph” Morbazan has, but if you’re using Maia you already have Necromancy, so a mage with Heal discipline is helpful with Vitalise, Cure etc.” - Globe_199
  • “A mage with three magical circles but no discipline to help out the damage or effect. The only energy caster with concentrate to stay around. Not my cup of tea really.” - Shadow_Throw
  • “Yago has a bevy of spells that allow for almost as much fun as Morbazan. I put him here because his ability to last in the Arena is unparalleled. With the staff that Morbazan made for him, his gear, and some nice rings, he is healed by every magic except Fire, to which he has a 90% resistance, while remaining impervious to melee. The only problem with that is having to end the arena. Having to cast Meteor Storm for literally 15 minutes and trying to avoid being hit by anything (as it heals me) just to die and end the arena, is a minus in my book.” - Imhotep

Neru:

  • “I swear, the only reason you get him is so you have someone with Blunt weapons for the Adytum. Leg sweep is nice, but Phoenix stance takes so long to set up for ONE 4x damage hit it can only really be used against a certain end-game boss where you have to use Neru, if you know what I mean. Heal is okay, but Yago can do it better.” - Globe_199
  • “I prefer physical attackers over mages and thanks to a combo of heal and holy he can take care of himself in most situations though the lack of weapons are quite annoying.” - Shadow_Throw
  • “I love his skills and my fondness for kicking enemies in both of these games. The stances are a huge disappointment, but because of that fact that this guy is a martial arts using pirate, I have to give him props.” - Imhotep

Taurgis:

  • “a man with a sword/axe/hammer. That’s about it.” - Globe_199
  • “Taurgis, I would feel like if there were a strategic, war portion to this game, he would shine. After all, he’s the general for a reason. Also, he’s a general for the reason that he is pretty much useless as a fighter. Sure, he has some power attacks, but those are limited by the weapons he can use and the mobs ability to withstand their types.” - Imhotep
1313

Couldn’t tell you. I presume Black Bull is high up there because it’s fucking impossible to kill and can knock all the other machines around, similar to Bowser in Super Mario Kart.

1314

Ah. I thought it was because it was a heavy machine and hence could abuse the back-and-forth drift trick and also could achieve a high default max speed.

You’re right, its a very balanced game; but I heard someone say something about tiers for it earlier in this thread so I wanted a bit of elaboration.

1315

I played Queen Meteor and Little Wyvern in that game. The fact that they put James McCloud in there was hilarious. I’m not a big fan of StarYiff, but that’s still a hilarious homage.

1316

Did you know that Mr. EAD was based off of Mario? I found that out recently…

Personally I use my custom machine, a ‘Heat Coyote 88’, which I nicknamed “Dark Raven”. Its a light-heavy machine at around 1800 lbs. If I have to use a regular machine I use the Hyper speeder, Deep Claw or Wild Goose.

1317

I don’t use custom machines because I originally intended to play F-Zero GX competitively, and they don’t allow customs in competition. The only machines I used with any frequency were Queen Meteor, Little Wyvern, Super Piranha, and(CAMAON!) Blue Falcon.

And, yeah, Mr. EAD being a Mario knockoff was kinda obvious because of his nose, mustache, and belt buckle.

1318

Where did you hear this?? Who says custom machines can’t be used in competition? One of the major selling points of the connection between GX and AX was the custom machines; ie. the Bahamut!

I recall one of the official tourneys back in Japan was loaded with custom machines.

1319

Oh, really? My bad, then. I wouldn’t know.

1320

Final Fight 3 Tiers

I know someone else already did them, but after playing it I will go more in-depth and I disagree that Lucia is the worst character.

  1. Guy: He has the least amount of range, but he is the fastest in the game. His special move is good. Dealing out multiple hits which will fill his super gauge up quickly. His special also goes out far in front of him and can hit multiple opponents. Good for crowd control. His basic combo is also good. Hits fast and deals solid damage. He has a running combo, which is nice but his Elbow strike takes a split second to come out as he slides forward so enemies can back away to avoid the blow. Still, this just means that a Guy player needs to time it better and attack a bit later in the run. The elbow strike has Guy duck low, which can be good for going under punches that enemies might try to throw out. His throws are decent. He has a shoulder toss throw for crowd control as well. His jumping Elbow Drop can be used to start combos. He is a straight up boss killer since he can do tons of damage with no Super Gauge. Elbow Drop > Basic Combo > Dashing Combo > Fireball special really lays on the hurt. His super is solid and he will be getting many chances to use it since his attacks hit so many times. The end of his super can hit other enemies as well.

  2. Haggar: He is the slowest with the most reach. But honestly he isn’t even that slow. His special is really good. Deals great damage and his great range since he leans in with his hands as he does the upward swipe with his fists. It hits multiple times which is good for meter building. His crowd control is the best in the game and so are his grabs. He can do SPD’s that deal damage to other enemies as he goes up in the spin, comes down, and when his foe flies from his arms once he lands. All his throws do great damage as well. He can do a flying suplex instead of an SPD if he grabbed his enemy from the back. It does the same damage as the SPD, but it doesn’t seem to hit other enemies on the way up, so SPD is better. His super is the best in the game as well. He does a flying suplex followed by an SPD. When he comes down for each slam he can damage enemies below him and when he comes down for the SPD it will cause a full screen damage effect for every enemy. He doesn’t build meter as well as Guy or Lucia, though since alot of the time he will be using throws and throws don’t build meter that well. It’s his only real weakness. Still his crowd control makes up for it.

  3. Lucia: She is the second fastest and has the third longest reach. Overall her damage is the worst in the game. Her saving grace is her comboability which is comparable to Guy’s. She attacks many times in her combos and this helps her build meter very quickly. Her running combo is better then Guy’s since she throws out her elbow strike almost instantly and she has more reach then him. Her throws are also better for crowd control then Guy’s due to the angle she throws enemies at. She also has a throw where she knees her foe right in the back and they fly straight forward. It’s one of the best throws for crowd control in the game. What makes her worse then Guy is that she is far more unsafe. She has two specials. An aerial flame kick and kick DP. The flame kick requires her to jump which puts her at risk since she must land after it’s done. She can jump and do an instant flame kick, but it’s still risky for her. Her kick DP does great damage and it an awesome combo ender. For the final kick she knocks her opponent straight down and they will damage any enemies they land on. Problem is that she is completely vulnerable once the DP is completed as she falls back to the ground. Another problem is that if she is close to the edge of the screen, her enemy will be let out of the kick DP and fall back to the ground while Lucia is still kicking in the air. It also happens when she is near a wall. This makes her a high risk/high reward character. Her super is awesome and she can combo straight into it. She is a boss killer just like Guy since she can abuse her combos and her kick DP without worrying about being attacked by other enemies.

  4. Dean: He is the second slowest with the second longest reach. His attacks do solid damage. He has two specials like Lucia. His first one lets him grab really far ahead of him. I would say about 3 character lengths in front of him. That’s some damn good grab range. Dean will also be invincible as he pulls his foes towards him if he lands the grab. But while his throws are powerful, they are lacking in terms of crowd control since his throws involve him slamming his foes into the ground near him or breaking their backs across his knee. His second special has him do a lightning uppercut. It does good damage and stays out for quite a bit. Anyone that gets near him will take full damage. It can also be comboed into, but lacks the great range of basic combo. His super is great. Does full screen damage like Haggar’s once Dean slams his enemy into the ground. Dean actually has an interesting style. He is a fusion of a fighter type and a grappler type. The main thing that keeps him down is his lack of crowd control. If he had that he would be as good as Haggar easily. Still he is alot of fun to play. Electrocuting people never gets old.

I feel the character balance is a lot better in this game compared to Streets of Rage 2 and 3. Everyone in this game has things about them, that makes them effective. In SoR2 and SoR3 only 2 characters are worth fucking with in each game and the rest don’t matter really.That’s not to say other character’s can’t beat the game, but the lesser characters’ don’t have much appeal compared to the best ones. I feel like everyone in Final Fight 3 brings something to the table.

*Sigh

If only Lucia was safer.