my post doesnt have anything worth discussing. it did but then i edited it out because I don’t feel like talking about this stuff. also what is here?
what do you mean by farmers?
If it has nothing worth discussing, then I don’t need to clarify what you didn’t get in “farmers” (so I won’t). “Here” is the United States scene. If there was nothing worth discussing, then disregard what I said as I’m doing the same with what you’ve said.
It just seemed like a really crass comment with “Let’s just make arcade ST the standard and exclude everyone else”, same with a certain other person’s openly antagonizing comment about the Midwest of the United States. I’m not taking that bait and I suggest other players from midwest do the same.
It’s your fault for not executing your reversal within the 8 frame window.
The 8 frame window for a dragon punch is constant. If you execute a dragon punch in ST within 8 frames then you will get a dragon punch every single time. The window for a dragon punch is a constant 8 frames.
[media=youtube]cbMllTeLTR0&#t=4m44s[/media]
Right…don’t learn ‘fancy’ combos and don’t have great dexterity. Because being able to combo into super or renda cancel or consistently reverse is a detriment in SFII. :wasted:
our angry sports writer has spoken, and he has maintained great self control!
man this guy can pull any FG videos out of his ass. it’s so hilarious and yet i’m so impressed. that come back is so bad ass i never get tired of watching it :tup:
please people please, bring down this beast for once this coming SBR. he won sf4 & HDR last year. we cannot let him do this again in ssf4, ST & HDR
when you say most important aspect of the game, you mean execution of moves yes? because for me personally, the most important aspect of HDR/ST is actually the mindgame involved. among the street fighter games, i find HDR/ST the game where combos and move execution take a back seat to mindgame. and the execution needed for HDR/ST is nowhere near as difficult as some other games - at least it doesn’t need to be so precise as others (a good example is 3s, remember when daigo was able to parry that chun li attack from justin? he had to do that to win). that is the most extreme case of execution needed to be perfect, but parry alone is an execution move that needs to be mastered and sometimes critical when the action is fast pace - what comes close to that type of execution in ST? regarding the strength of parry - a strict execution type move - in ST, anti air attacks are strong. for example: the fireball corner trap with ryu wont work as well in 3s obviously because if they jump and ryu has his shoryuken ready, you can parry all of that, although the timing of the person jumping in has to be good (an escape option that wasn’t in ST).
i’ve seen matches in ssf4, tekken, soul calibur, etc that require more inputs, more precise execution, and alot more movement, but not necessarily more mindgame. you literally need to have xyz combos down to be able to come back or win sometimes in these other games. in HDR/ST, i’ve seen people win without using combos, and without using many moves in fact, and sometimes even messing up a few times but still able to win - to me personally, this is the beauty of HDR/ST. BUT for them to do that, their spacing and mindgame especially need to be on point imo.
what are you referring to when you say “easier by definiton”? ok, if you mean for gief to execute a move, that person’s strategy in making gief win, his plan of attack still needs to be solid right? and the “easy aspect” is only shifted to gief’s corner, where on the flipside, it becomes more of a challenge for ryu to win. why would that be a bad thing? is this a free win for gief? personally, i don’t think so but i could be wrong. in their matchup, i seriously thought DGV would have and could have won that match. and as good as snake eyez is, i personally didn’t think he was a “sure win” once the final 8 started because i recall seeing him get destroyed by afrolegends in a past tournament. i don’t think it was easy for him to win the whole HDR tourney, and i’ll go as far as say that someone would need to put in the hours and then some to achieve the success he did with zangief at future evos.
now, snake eyez did beat afro legends at evo as well as dgv. but if HDR is at evo again next year, i would think afro would want to prove to himself and the people in attendance that he can beat snake eyez and any zangief that will enter. he will work on trying to find a way - just as snake eyez worked on findign a way to beat afro. i feel that some people have encountered some aspect of HDR that is causing some type of problem, and they just haven’t put in the time to find a way to get around it.
You could, or you could take advantage of size, force best defender out of the game, which has ramifications beyond just checking you, and get free points from the line. plus rebounding, blocked shots, etc. etc.
Like you haven’t clarified anything. Free throws have a very small impact on the game
yeah your four year old nephew can hit a layup on a ten foot hoop maybe 1 out of 4 times. You are so ridiculously out fo your league here. It just blows my mind how people who think they know anything spout off the stupidest shit.
Perfect execution. Never turnover the ball, passes always on target, shot always goes in. Always cover on defense. You are saying that if I hit 100% of my shots I wont win every game. Please, figure it out. Don’t post anymore with bad analogies
Do you even understand what you said
Like, this is so wrong lol. Do you even know what average in the nba is, or who the best players are? How about steve nash, during his back to back mvp seasons, what was his free throw percentage then?
Why do i feel like we are at the top of a very steep cliff, and the pleasure of the discussion is becoming the horror of attempted murder?
Come on guys, tone it down a little.
Sure, but is it my fault that the game gave me only 8 frames but my opponent 10 (hypothetically speaking)?
Conversely, I don’t want to win if I get more frames on a critical reversal than my opponent. I’m of the opinion that randomness such as this should not be included in the game.
Which way is Daigo known more for winning? With crazy combos, like in your video, or, with impeccable fundamentals like in [media=youtube]dlT4H7VNkN8"[/media]?
Yeah, combos are a part of SFII, but they aren’t important enough that not including them in your game is a detriment.
I get that being Swiss and all, you probably don’t have that major of a SFII scene, but the plight of my fellow mid-westerners shouldn’t be scoffed at. To use an analogy (since they’re quite popular around here): getting punched in the testicles is much worse than getting punched in the face. Just because one is objectively much worse than the other, it doesn’t mean that the alternative is desirable. I’d rather not get punched in the testicles and not get punched in the face. So yeah, people from the midwest have it easier than you, but not by that much.
This. I know one thing for sure: if HDR had been released in Japan and became the new standard over there, all these ST players complaining about overpowered new tricks or easier execution would immediately embrace HDR and come up with new strats to deal with Zangief or Fei or whoever. Either that or quit playing altogether.
You missed the point though, if you both do it within 8 frames, it doesn’t matter what the game gave either of you.
Well then, to not encounter that problem at all, don’t you have to be perfect in your timing 100% of the time? Is any human capable of that?
Well, you do it enough, and after your body self corrects a little, then you’ll be at what like 90+% accuracy?
I’m ok with hdr improving the window, but 15 constant frames? I could live with like 10 or 11 and ST’s window just takes practice, and another mentality, just do the damn motion fast.
Gentlemen,
Going forward, lets follow a few simple rules before posting in this thread?
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Only Damdai is allowed to make basketball analogies.
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Papasi is only allowed to post once per page.
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Refrain from making statements that sound insulting to John Rambo.
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Do not discuss the merits of HDR or ST, as ST is clearly superior.:wgrin:
The problem is not that 8 frames is too fast to do the SRK consistently. The problem is that newcomers will learn to do the SRK in 10 or 12 frames because of the variability of the input window. If a new players only ever encounters 10-13 frames the majority of the time, their muscle memory will not learn to do it in 8 frames. This problem also affects more experienced players. I don’t mind if the input window is a constant 8 frames, but it is the variability that makes it hard to learn the SRK in the minimum input window. If the input window is constant, and if I execute the SRK too slow, I will just get a whiffed punch. This will teach my muscle memory to do it faster. But since it’s variable, if I execute slowly, and the input window is large (which it is the majority of the time), then my muscle memory will learn to execute in the larger input window. It has nothing to do with capability or even practice, it has to do with the stupid variability, which causes clutch DPs to be dropped and makes it frustrating to learn reversal timing. I agree that 15 frames is too large (possibly 10 or 12 would be perfect), but even 8 frames is fine, as long as it remains consistent.
Hahahahahaha.
Can we close this thread now ?
You should give that crouching forward a stray hitbox like T.Hawk cr strong from ST.
If you learn to do it quickly all the time though blitz, then you can pass that barrier. If you sometimes get random punches, then just think the next time to do it quickly.
Here’s what i’ve noticed about myself, if I’m having to think about doing the srk, then i end up doing it too slow. However, if i do it more like a reflex, then i get them far more consistently.
I understand the whole lower the bar to attract other players. I just think that in some cases lowering the bar too much is bad.
Just as an example, The CW is a big change. The bar wasn’t simply lowered, it was dropped, and the move became something completely different. Hawk is in a similar boat. HK flashkick?
I think we can all agree though, fuck fake hado.
Though I don’t much like where the DP window is fixed, I do fully support a fixed DP window in theory. I agree that it just doesn’t make a lot of sense to have it randomly be anywhere within a range. Even if you can consistently DP within 8 frames, it can still affect you out the other end. People complain about the longer window forcing them to DP in situations where it usually wouldn’t in ST (for example, a walk-forward Hadoken), but even if you only get that 15 frame window 5% of the time or whatever it is, there is that chance that you would have encountered the same screw-up in ST that you encounter every time in HDR, and that inconsistency is a bit problematic, however minor. Even if we ignore that, at lower and intermediate levels of play, the variable window hurts a lot more, and fixing it helps them. If we could find a fixed window that everyone could agree was reasonable (which in itself might be impossible), it would benefit the lower skill levels without harming the upper, and I think that would be a good thing. Of course, at this point, no further changes are likely, so it is just pipe dreams, but as someone who greatly prefers ST, that’s where I stand on variable DP windows.
Mr Tecmo, I can only give you a solid B+ with this effort, although you did pass the last exam with flying color.
Seriously, thanks for the good laugh. We need to keep the lighthearted atmosphere here.
Hey, you know who’s fault it is? It’s Capcom. They dropped the ball over and over again.
It’s a 1994 16Mb game and they have tried at least 4 times
PS1
CCC2
DC
HDR
and still couldn’t produce a console version that is well received.
Now I’ve used up my quota 
Soooo…have we decided yet? Haha. I had to say that.
In all seriousness, we’re getting a little off track here.
Papasi,
It’s a good thing a lot of players haven’t left the SF2 scene because they were forced to play a version of SF2 that they didn’t prefer. If that happened, the turnouts for ST over the years would not be as high as they were. Quite a bit of the players who have come out over the years prefer some of the other SF2s. However, I do get where Cigar is coming from though. Luckily, there are more guys who prefer to play any SF2.
Anyway, enough about all of that. Ganelon & Rambo, I’m curious as to what you envision for the future of SF2. Given that you both are advocating CPS2, you have me intrigued. I’m trying to figure out how you could make it work logostically so that everyone could play & practice at home with CPS2 ST. And with that, where does Evo fit into your plan for SF2? I could guess that you guys are thinking that each major will have a ST cab tourney and Evo will have an un-official cab tourney. And perhaps, the culmination of all that would be SBO quals? Again, all this is just speculation on my part. I much rather hear it from you guys.
For SF2 to grow imo, I cannot see the feasability of CPS2 ST. It has be to either Console HDR or Console Classic Mode. This ensures that every player has access to both play & practice, regardless of hardware. I mean, by foregoing console for CPS2, that literally means we are giving away our spot in the Evo lineup and being relegated to a side-tourney. That means no big screen and less likelihood of a stream (let alone recorded footage). The sum of all that is, less exposure for SF2. Additionally, I am not sure how many players would travel for a “side tourney” regardless of what guarantees were in place (time, pot, etc). Because the reality of the matter is, they are still just “un-official” tournaments that can be canceled at any time. It’s hard to justify traveling (airfare, lodging, transporation) for a tourney that “should” take place.
The future I hope for SF2 is one in which every major will draw several hundred entrants and Evo will have several thousand entrants. I know, that seems like a stretch at this point, given how few SF2 players on these forums actually attend. The problem is further compounded by the fact that we want to attract former SF2 players and we are using/playing a version most of them have never even seen or played (ST/HDR). This is probably the part where Decoy would insert, “That’s why we should just use HF” 
And all things considered, that would probably make our task of getting more players to attend considerably easier since HF is certainly more recognized by the former players. BUT running HF doesn’t seem to likely, right now anyway. So, we’re all left to work with what we have. Console HDR or Console Classic Mode. Hopefully we can reach some kind of consensus soon. After all, there are 3 majors coming up on the WC. Should the scene decide in favor of Classic Mode, we need to give Valle, Choi, and John Rog ample time to adjust accordingly.