I have no idea what they’re on about, especially after seeing Kuroda OCV his way through entire team tournaments.
I don’t mind players like Justin Wong preferring 1v1. It’s their choice. But realize that some players may want SFxT to be 2v2 for this reason. Anyway, I threw you ideas as to how 2v2 would be different to watch, and better footsies per partner was one of them. I misinterpreted who you referred to as being “psychic” so my bad.
I just played 2v2 at Wednesday Night Fights, and it was god awful. It was nothing but time outs (more than the SFxTK norm.), and there was less playable area, since we could only have 3 stations up, rather than the usual 9 I’ve seen them run for a game. Plus having to have four people look at a 22" monitor is an eye strain.
Do you think that those a problems a bigger monitor and more lab time with partners will fix, or is it fucked?
I imagine that my partner and I could have been more coordinated, but our problem wasn’t that on a large scale. No matter how well we work together, it will never prove who the best is. It also just makes the game stale, since now we have to play it like a hacked version of street fighter 4. If we gimp ourselves to only focusing on being good at one character, it won’t progress the games underlying technology or meta. Sure we’ll figure out how to maximize damage, but then we’re left with a game that about brute strength, and not about strategy, mix ups, or yomi.
I’ll give you an example. It’s like playing against two people who switch between round on SF4. You’ll never feel like you out played someone, since you never got a chance to really play a true set. Never get to feel out your opponent. And you don’t feel like you’ve gotten any better since you’re only doing half the work.
I say if Evo wants to really make 2v2 a tournament standard, and not just the asking us to tell them about the rabbits before they shoot our game in the head, then they better go to the sub 1 frame TV thread on tech talk and start buying some new equipment.
My hope is that this whole mess will get Capcom on the ball to publicly address the concerns with their game, and their plans to fix it. Pair play on 360 is a must. Despite whatever depth gems add to the game, the time to configure them is too long for them to be used in any serious capacity outside of your living room (can you imagine SFxT in Japanese arcades??). Their game mechanics are promoting time outs way too much; they should reconsider how a few of them are implemented.
Just like how AE at Evo 2011 was the stepping stone for the 2012 rebalance (Ono was there and publicly apologized for Yun and Fei), maybe if this game is a total mess at Evo 2012, they’ll rethink a few things about their game.
As far as 2v2 goes, there are some really important things to note, IMO:
-
While the gameplay might not look all that different from 1v1, there is a greater intensity while watching, knowing that it’s 2v2. You know that the difficulty of getting a character out is harder, or the teammate in the back is mashing tag and is gonna come in at an inopportune time (land a low short and could have comboed? too bad, tag incoming!). Even if the end result of the match is mostly the same, there is an excitement that happens knowing that 2 people have to coordinate what you’re watching, and that one person’s mistake could cost 2 players.
-
There are a lot of gameplay strategies that basically aren’t doable in 2v2. Things like… psychic DP, tag. How is the second player going to know about the first player’s incoming psychic DP? Things like… Ryu’s overhead, tag (into a combo on hit). Again, how is the second player going to react to this tag? I mean, I guess you could have codewords or something, but I don’t really see it working that well. Basically, any technique that requires one player to be creative and spontaneous using a tag will be essentially impossible in 2v2. In fact, you might end up hurting your game overall, because there will be less creativity on display, and more “practiced” plays that get stale over time.
-
The gameplay will be much sloppier. This is sort of a side effect of the point above. Even with play optimized about as well as two human players can, there will be tons of missed damage and missed opportunities because of the need to coordinate. Player 1 might just have some totally brilliant, spontaneous read that needs both characters to perform, but he’ll have to go for the “standard” thing that they practiced. Player 1 might not WANT his teammate to tag right now, but in the heat of a match in a room as loud as Evo, you’re probably not going to be able to stop it. Instead of having both of your characters playing 100% towards a unified goal, you’ll only ever end up getting them about 80% of the way there with 2 players.
But if there’s one redeeming quality of all this, it’s that to me, this missing 20% can make it really interesting to watch. Not as much in a “wow look at that amazing creativity”, but rather “wow, how did they manage that basic task with 2 people playing?”
That said, I can see why some players would be upset at 2v2 for all the reasons listed before. I don’t really know how Evo can please everyone, though, and if NOTHING else, maybe this will force Capcom’s hand to improve their game a bit, instead of working hard on meaningless DLC and hiding behind a one-way mirror like many Japanese companies tend to do.
evo could of pleased everybody by saying you can either go solo or as a team
It just doesn’t sit right with me. I think it should have been 1 on 1 with the best man winning. 2v2 could have been hype as a side tourney though.
Not to wildly change the direction of the conversation, but I imagine Japanese arcades was probably their inspiration on this one. Gems actually be really easy and reasonably quick to do this in a system of linked cabs with game cards. It really isn’t any more complicated to set up than Tekken outfits.
Consoles at tourneys? Obviously a pain in the ass right now…
:eek: I know where you’re coming from.
I don’t, however, know your gaming history and I’ve played various 2v2 team games in tournaments for almost a decade now.
You would honestly honestly be surprised how some of these points completely evaporate when you put training time in with a consistently available partner.
I understand how this can be an egregious mistake to some and even scary to a few, but I hope this event will open some people up to the concept of competitive 2v2 and that it’s actually not only doable, but much more fun for both the players and the viewers once they get acclimated to the gist of the format.
Me and my partner have been bumping the other’s leg just before we’re going to do a psychic reversal with the expectation of a tag. Seems to work well for us.
People just don’t want to accept this. They want to complain until things go their way.
I’ve kind of checked out of trying to debate folks down on this – I’m going to have a hard time finding a constantly available partner, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to try my best and remain excited about this event… /shrug/
Lol get your partner signals ready:
At the risk of sounding like a clueless tool, if there’s not enough time to run 1v1 2/3 double-elim, why don’t they just get more setups? If price is the issue, raise the entry fee to compensate.
You: WHY’D YOU MISS THAT TAG?!
Partner: Dude, wtf?!
You: I GAVE YOU THE SIGNAL!!
This game is ass anyways. This just means one less game to practice for now. I couldn’t help but notice alot of players at NCR looked kind of sloppy because they were playing too many different games. The Japanese only play AE while we play like 5 different games. It’s no wonder why we get bodied by them.
Not every game is for everyone…
The issue is that people try to play everything – folks need to pick one and stick to it instead of trying to “play what’s popular.” Part of that is why SFxT is a time concern to begin with… SFxT bridges the gap between SSF4 and UMvC3 in execution requirements – its not really meant for people who play either of those games diligently, but for people who felt 100% at home in neither – like myself.
I love SSF4 and I liked UMvC3, but neither game really suited me in the long run. SFxT is mostly meant for folks like that and for Tekken folks looking to pass the time till TTT2.