I just do ambiguous cross-ups. Gotta love Abel’s fat ass hurt box.
What is “6j.mk”? Empty jump low and empty jump overhead, as well as general overhead spam, are incredibly good if you got your loops down. Crouching or standing, Abel is going to eat a Tsumuji loop.
Backed with option select U1 here and there and Abel is just simply forced to eat your empty jump mixups.
But to answer your questions, there are no discovered unblockalols on Abel, yet.
Me too, but i think i like guaranteed damage more lol
j.lk > 6j.mk is air target combo
Actually, I saw Sako use Ultra 2 vs. Abel sometimes.
He only used it against Shiro’s Abel, so I assume it’s because he knows OS Ultra 1 doesn’t work against the great Abel players.
fyi: he can armour cancel his roll without spending meter, so you can’t OS Abel no matter what.
hmm
He stated this to some extend in his recent article regarding his experience with the arcade culture in Japan.
AE is no longer a game where you can play a fundamentally-rooted character, play solid, and win. You have to pick someone with extremely strong mix-up potential, ala Marvel characters, if you want to be placing top3 consistently.
For such a “defensive” game, its weird to see to characters with NO footsie game at all (Seth, Viper) body everyone. I think that this is a phase, people will learn anti-mixup tech and conform. It has happened before, from Vanilla Sagat to AE Yun to even new Anti-Viper, Seth and Cammy tech coming out. I mean, the even the new anti-Ibuki tech some people are finding is downright scary.
The game is balanced in a weird way, each character is viable and can win (except Dan) but each character has a match or two that simply eats them alive. Never before have I seen so many SF players pick up secondary characters, I mean hell, I even use Gief just to avoid Bison match ups. This game is so fun and fascinating in that sense.
Also, James Chen said last night that Ibuki is top 5 in the game. B.S, Top 10 maybe but not Top 5.
It was originally a very defensive game due to the vast variety of defensive options that were present in SF4 that weren’t available to other SFs. Easily mashed reversal DPs, the looming threat of an ultra meter, focus attacks with armor, backdashes with invulnerability, etc etc
Vanilla Sagat had nothing to do with mixups. Dude just had extremely oppressive zoning ability and high damage off of certain normals and bnb combos. He basically had the same life percentage damage as in ST, in a brand new game where most basic combos did 10-15% damage.
More importantly, there was no anti-top tier tech developed to the extent that it null their tier list positioning. Capcom simply patched the problems away before the game was fully discovered, which is a major gripe I have with constant updates to modern games.
What new anti-Ibuki tech are you talking about? I haven’t seen anything besides certain character’s abilities to escape the vortex, and we’ve known them for quite some time.
Plenty of SF games have demanded that top players pick secondary characters, especially in older games, where the tier list spread is much farther apart than SF4. If anything, SF4 has rewarded players who have stuck with their primary characters due to the low number of completely bad matchups (7-3 or 8-2)
Ibuki MIGHT be top 5 characters, assuming you place her at the highest of the high tier. Of course the amount of players who are able to play her at that high of a level is pretty far and few between (Sako being the prime example). You can get much farther in a shorter amount of time just picking up Cammy.
Remember, this is the same James Chen who says that Cammy has sucked for the LONGEST time. And there’s clearly heavy bias in the community in regards to how they view Ibuki. Nobody likes a Blanka, El Fuerte, or Ibuki player.
@Izuna: Even if the Abel player won’t fall for U1, I still think U2 is worthless because you can just double loop him anyways. And random U1 is actually a decent option against Abel’s f+MK xx dash.
@soulsynapse: Dieminion and Sanford have the same mentality, and to a degree, I’d say most top players would probably agree.
@eltrouble: I disagree. There aren’t even enough players who place top 3 consistently to prove that point. But there are players who place top 8 consistently, and they’re not all characters with “marvel” ability. eg: Ryu.
@CaptainGinyu: First, I heavily disagree that Seth/CViper are “body(ing) everyone”. My argument is that they’re not placing top 8 consistently, so therefore no such bodying is being done.
The game is “defensive” in the sense that characters who have the least number of weaknesses/flaws and can be played super solidly in a low risk/medium-to-high reward fashion, will come out on top. This is probably why most people agree characters like Fei/Cammy/Sakura are top tier because they have have very little flaws, are solid characters, and generally have low risk mixups. (also, they are generally regarded as being very easy to pick up)
Vanilla Sagat and AE 2011 Yun are kind of bad examples, because they were nerfed up the ass.
If you really wanted to avoid the Bipson matchup, you should just pick Guile. The game suddenly becomes incredibly fun and fascinating in the sense you don’t have to try hard at all to even be a threat lol.
James “Cammy is crap tier” Chen on tierlists = lol. Nonetheless I do agree Ibuki is somewhere around the top 10.
@soulsynapse:I posted this stuff about Dieminion on the general discussion thread =)
Anyway just to be sure I tested the unblockable on Guile (neckbreaker - walk - f.LK - j.LK) and focus-forward dash lets him out of it for free (he’s too far for a sweep to catch him, and if Ibuki walks a bit before the sweep he can block it and punish sweep, so… unless there are secret unblockable setups I wouldn’t say that going for unblockalol all day gets him out for free.
James Chen on tier lists = lol.
Ibuki is top 10, why not. I just believe that she is difficult to be viable in tournament becauses she loses to almost all the top tiers (ie. other members of this top 10)
Ibuki is fundamentally flawed for winning tournaments. She’s Top 5 in terms of Win-Ratio imo, but not Top 5 for tournament and round-robin play.
However…
If you take into account of the most popular characters, and you realise that Ibuki has great match-ups against most of them, she’s definitely Top 5. Just imagine a character having a great match-up against Yun, Ken, and Chun-Li in 3S, but bad match-up against Makoto, Urien and Dudley.
Just to elaborate further, Ibuki beats the crap out of Shotos and is fair with Gouki, loses to rare charge characters, Cammy, and Zangief. She, like Makoto, should always reach Top 8 in an equal skilled environment.
Oh but if everyone learnt to use either Dictator or Zangief and counter-picked Ibuki, she wouldn’t.
Top 10 ok, but top 5? You guys must be kidding. She is high tier, no top.
Cammy, Seth, Akuma, Fei, Adon (Top 5 in my opinion), then C. Viper, Rufus and here-comes-the-ibuki-group (A tier: Ibuki, Makoto, Sakura, Ryu, Yun… and dont know if any character more).
If you look her match ups against the top tiers:
She loses to: cammy, gouki, fei long and rufus (4)
She is even with: seth, adon, c.viper (3)
She wins to: none. (0)
how in the hell she could be top 5?
It’s known that FA dash gets him out, and not even TC3 can stop it. It’s also known that if Guile knows you’re going for that unblockable, he can simply stay crouching, or maybe wake up cr.LK for good measure, and make your unblockable whiff.
Going for unblockalols all day is still good, because those options are very very unsafe. What you need to do is simply fake it once in a while and instead jump in with a fierce into Guile’s face. Maybe air target combo too for good measure.
On the discussion about Ibuki’s tier list placing: can we take this discussion to another thread? It has nothing to do with unblockalols and belongs elsewhere.
It’s really hard to determine what is classified as “equally skilled”, especially in SF4 with various character playstyles. A CViper player and Ryu player might be equally skilled, in the sense that the CViper has devoted hours of training toward execution, and the Ryu has devoted hours of training toward footsies and mindreading. Ryu might have a stronger midrange game, and get more stray hits, but CViper might have a stronger pressure game, and make each hit really count.
Anyways, tier lists are always based on matchups, for that we should talk about it in the matchup thread. If you strongly believe Ibuki wins/loses a specific matchup, go ahead and say so there.
I would Say Top 5 is
Cammy, Akuma, Viper, Seth, Adon
Then the bottom Top 5 is
Fei, Ibuki, Ryu, Sakura, and Cody and/or Rufus.
Ibuki has a bad matchup with Rufus but he is not top 5.
Why not just look at a match-up chart, edit values slightly, and find out that Ibuki still falls within the bottom 20? She’s 23rd place in the current Japanese chart. She’s considered Top 5 because we don’t have a lot of Daigo’s using each character.
What kind of chart are you talking about? I am really interested.
I think this was posted by Mingo, but I haven’t seen a video on it.
[media=youtube]pgBjoUlTwnc[/media]
Neckbreaker -> walk back -> sj.lk
Not sure EXACTLY how many frames you have to walk back. Personally I just look at Ibuki’s legs, and get it like 75% of the time. Even if you do mess up the timing by a little, its still pretty damn ambiguous.
Works on: Ryu, Ken, Ibuki, Akuma, Oni, Cammy, E.Ryu.
Works on but loses to reversal: Chun (EX SRK), Viper (HP Thunder knuckle, EX seismo feint), Guy (EX run, and EX Tatsu)
Note: they can avoid the unblockable by backdashing, I would strongly recommend you option select it.
Does not cross up (with the unblockable timing) : Everyone but Blanka, his crosses up.
Safe against (with unblockable timing): Honda, Makoto, Dudley, Gen, Sakura, Abel, Cody, Bison (can option select vs EX Psycho crusher), Yang, Balrog (boxer), Thawk, Dan
Safe-ish against (with unblockable timing): Juri (loses to super), Dhalsim ( loses to super, only 50 damage), Guile (loses to super, 50 damage, no launch), Hakan (Ultra 2), Rufus (loses to EX Messiah, but will go over (if you use crouch jab instead), ultra and super), Fuerte (loses to super, medium will get 105 damage, heavy will get 35 damage), Vega (Ultra 2),
Everyone else you will lose to their regular reversals.
However, you can still change the timing by a little to cross them up and then it will become safe against most of the cast or even become an unblockable against some as Mingo was showing vs Seth. Very ambiguous, very powerful.
Ugh, getting these unblockables down is so frustrating. Working on the EX NB, MK CD, j.lk/mk one, and the shoto Unblockable (f+lk), both on Akuma at the moment. I can’t get the proper timing for the “wait * frames” down consistently. It works about 1 out of 20 times.
I’m also playing on an HP monitor, which is most likely a bit laggy. That doesn’t help.
Even if you miss your unblockable, it’s still an ambiguous mixup. Its a hard 50:50 to block, they are pretty safe too. It wouldn’t hurt to use the set-up instead of a kunai, specially since you can option select it.
I mix both of them into my game all the time, but it would be nice if I could get the guaranteed unblockable most every time.