141

well I can’t really argue with the frame data, but it confuses me that I have definitely reversaled MP headbutts and hit them. Maybe the dummy wasn’t blocking or I screwed up the setup in my testing. :frowning:

142

Well, I don’t really know how the frame data works with Ultra’s and supers. Maybe somebody can explain that to me.

For Ultra start-up, it says it 1+13 frames. I don’t know what that means. If it’s 14 frames, why not just say 14? Why 1+13?

I’m pretty sure I’ve Ultra’s Strong Headbutt before too, but I can’t guarantee it.

143

Not to spam the thread too much, but the 1 frame differential i think changes based on which way the attack is going in the calculations.

For instance if the recovery is 13 frames, then you will be fully recovered on the 14th frame and able to block. But if the startup is 13 frames, then I would assume that the hit frames would also be the first frame after 13. (14)

Basically if you put them next to each other on a spread sheet (the frames) the startup, hit, and recovery frames would all be next to each other, but couldn’t overlap. I do know there is something with that +1, but I just don’t remember when it actually was applied.

and my reversals that i was testing were mostly MP CoD’s, not ultra’s. but since both startups are 13(?) it should be the same

144

Ultra animation activates on the very first frame, but the ultra itself hits on the 14th frame.

145

i thought the headbutt punish issue was resolved quite awhile ago? it was tested and proven that only FP headbutt’s punishable by lp/mp cod or ultra(reversal timing). there’s no “i think ive punished mp headbutt” talk anymore since this issue has been gone through a few times already.

146

Fei is kind of tough. There’s a good Fei in my city and he believes Fei beats Abel pretty bad too. I’d say the matchup is 6-4 Fei, maybe 6.5-3.5 but that’s being pessimistic I think. It’s a winnable match.

Chicken wing spam works for a while, but standing strong stuffs it clean if you know he’s going to do it from sweep-ish range. It’s more a trouble what to do after you’ve blocked one. You can always roll, but that gets thrown sometimes. If you’re crouching and get hit by a CW, sometimes he’ll go over your head, but he can still combo you after it.

The other problem is that he can combo st.HP xx EX wing and link the st.HP again (I think it’s 1-frame and works on Abel and one or two other characters only). He can continue this for as long as he has meter, and then finish with st.HP xx rekkas or flame kick and this combo hurts really bad. After a blocked f.fwd step kick, Fei gets a free reversal EX wing on you if you try anything besides block. I don’t know a great answer to this right now, because it’s kind of like trying to bait a shoryuken, except you can’t punish it when you do bait it. One possible answer is to LK roll after a blocked step kick, and then combo (ultra, fierce CoD, etc). Jumping straight up may also work, but this might just reset the situation instead of giving Abel an offense.

Fei also has great pokes. I think he can fish for rekkas as much as he wants against Abel from the right distance, and he can throw out EX wing for free whenever he wants, when he guesses you’re going to TT or try anything, and the risk/reward is very much in his favor (potentially huge combo, and safe on block).

It’s a tough match, especially if the Fei is a bit psychic, but I don’t think it’s unwinnable, and it’s certainly not as bad as Gief or Akuma. They can’t start spamming wing whenever they want like that thread suggests, though (standing strong). I think if you’re a bit psychic yourself, you can LK roll and get a combo too. That should keep the CWs in check a bit.

147

The best punish for chicken wings is lk roll under it, ultra the recovery.

148

Cool thanks for the feedback guys. I’ll try to incorporate it into my game and hopefully produce some results.

EDIT:
Also, against Chun, according to MagMan you can punish a blocked (also whiffed?) EX SBK with a plain Ultra but apparently you can’t:
[media=youtube]MYxN8ZGYSjU&feature=player_profilepage#t=168[/media] @2:35. Thoughts?

149

Rufus vs Abel

I propose that the match is in Rufus’s favor 6-4

Rufus advantage:

When Rufus gets on top of Abel, Rufus can divekick mixups into throws all day. He has really no initiative after blocking a galactic tornado. It is very easy to cross Abel up all the time after Rufus knocks Abel down.

Other reasons why:

Abel doesn’t have a ex messiah kick which lets Rufus rush you down

Abel doesn’t have a solid way to defeat dive kick mixups. He can beat it but it requires guessing such as throwing out Cr.Fierce or St.Fierce if you expect another divekick coming to you. But if you guess wrong, you will eat a counter hit galactic tornado combo.

Abel’s wake up row does not work against rufus if he starts his wake up with a dive kick because once you row, rufus has enough time to land and hit the grab before you totally escape.

Now for Abel’s advantage on why this match is only 6-4

If Abel gets the first initiative, Rufus will eat command throws, f+mk - st fierce rekkas all day because of Rufus lack of ex messiah kick since hes not on the offense.

After Abel does a cross up, the chances of ex messiah kicks are high because of how scared characters are against Abel so you would then induct the short version of the command roll and you will get a free raw ultra (big damage)

Since Rufus has a shitty backdash you can punish it with many things such as dash forward - command throw, or cr.RH which leads to a very good wake up option for Abel.

If you wanna play a lil distance from rufus, you can punish his cr fierce on block with a free ultra, if Rufus ever intends to get some free dmg.

And if he jumps from far, Your st mk will beat the dive kick or jump in because of the arc of Abel’s ST.MK

Ok there you guys have it for the rufus vs abel. This is from my perspective.

Ill write a Rog vs Abel pretty soon

150

Thanks J.

151

Off a blocked forward chicken wing, if you get the timing down pat a standing close fierce beats all of Fei’s options except dragon kick, ultra or another chicken wing. If he is too far, standing far strong would work too except less effectively… unfortunately you need reversal timing on a normal for this to work best and since Fei is on the offensive, his timing will likely be tighter. I do something similar after a blocked Vega df+rh

The mashing CW definitely isn’t the way to go… after a F+MK, you don’t even need to block or roll out. Just sit and wait for the 10 year startup time of CW and punch him out of it as soon as he leaves the ground.

I think the matchup could be better than 6-4 Fei but still got more ideas I want to try.

152

1st of all sorry i didnt watch the vid you posted because im at a place with shitty internet lol

anyway you can punish a blocked ex sbk with ultra, input the ultra immediately after blocking the first hit of the ex sbk. as for a whiffed ex sbk, its possible but you have to know the timing(which i dont know lol)…

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm8190883 (i baited and punished a blocked ex sbk in that vid, my match @ 11:40, the punish is around 13:50)

oh and i realized you can punish a hazanshu on reaction with ex TT too.

and thanks justin for your input on the rufus matchup,

153

I’ll add a few things:

  • If you block a divekick, try backdashing. If he hits you during the backdash you get an opportunity to escape and you evade the throw. This will also disrupt Rufus’ offensive rhythm, forcing him to wait a split second to get good damage on you. This will open up more traditional escape options like EX roll, throw tech, and jump.

  • Learn and perfect the infinite. Punish him for eating a F+MK by taking chunks of time off the clock.

  • If you block the first part of EX Messiah, here are your options:
    -EX roll (completely safe)
    -Focus (to counter the overhead or the low, loses to flip kick)
    -block (beats flip kick)
    -cr.HP or TT (beats empty messiah)

  • Rufus is very WIDE. Use ambiguous crossups if you get a knockdown.

I look forward to playing you again, Justin.

154

Wow, some heavy hitters contributing to this thread. Godlike matchup thread.

155

Off a blocked chicken wing, you should be most scared of flame kick FADC and another chicken wing, so I don’t think close st.HP is a good counter if it does indeed lose to those options. Off a blocked chicken wing (EX especially), you’re in a bad guessing game where Fei has huge risk/reward off any of his choices. Perhaps there are specific things you can do if you can read which non-EX wing you blocked. I haven’t looked into this too much. I also don’t know if neutral jump or jump back fierce is good or not. I do know Abel needs to be scared when he blocks a chicken wing, though. It’s just specifically bad for Abel because one EX wing leads to so much damage against him, and even if the guy messes up the link, EX wing is safe when blocked and he’s back in a guessing game in Fei’s favor. He’s basically freerolling for the huge damage.

If Fei does reversal EX wing off a blocked F+MK and you’re trying to attack him, you will get hit. There’s no baiting and punishing it unless you roll, as far as I know. Fierce wing is also slow, but as far as I know there’s no real reliable punish for it. Because of Abel’s hitbox and how close you are to Fei (and the invincibility frames on fierce wing), you’ll probably get counterhit if you try it. It might give you time to roll on reaction, though.

The problem is that there aren’t enough good Feis out there to show why this matchup is bad (and they aren’t playing Abels better than me to brainstorm ideas to the matchup). The best player in our city plays Fei well and there are several Abels here, so you should play him for an extended session and see for yourself. I don’t think there’s any real stage of the fight where Abel is at an advantage, except maybe if he can get a step kick on a meterless Fei. I’d like to play the fight more and expand on these thoughts, though.

156

This is why I don’t block chicken wing.

Turtle the fuck out of Fei, know when Rekkas are unsafe, and st.MP his chicken wing attempts. This is like the Honda match, in that Abel can effectively turtle in this one.

5-5, IMO.

157

You can stuff chicken wing on reaction with standing far fierce too… if you are smoking Fei for 130 damage plus a reset every time you bait a CW, he will stop doing them soon enough. but yeah I’m with juicebox… you can’t go nuts with mix ups in this one, and you have to zone Fei instead. Abel’s damage output and stamina will win out eventually

158

I thought the infinite on Rufus was taken out of the game with the update?

159

No, the only infinite that was taken out was Fei’s.

I really have found no good use to the infinite besides run the clock… after 4 reps the thing does next to no damage, I’ve found that its better to go for 2 reps then end it with fierce into rekka, that way you have a knockdown and oki going for you.

160

then do the infinite and mix it up. i.e. st.lp,cr.lk,cr.lp end it with TT. its free meter if you can do the infinite.