Already discussed:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7487729&postcount=133
online is BS.
Anyone thats counts online for something other than ‘practice’ will never make it in a tourny. Stone cold truth
thanks. summed up all my answers, haha. You should add that link to the OP. =p
if its lagging and shit, its not even worth to be called practice. real talk
Nope.
Like in the post I linked, I don’t think that information is really worthy of what I tried to do with this thread. I made that post after looking at frame data for 2 minutes. If you’re too lazy to do the math, that’s on you. I’m not gonna put stuff in the first post, that you should be able to figure out on your own.
This thread is about match theory. I put down how I strategize the fights. Other people can contribute. When it comes to specific, tactical shit… I don’t really get into it too much in this thread. Even that Chun post, I answered the tactical question, but I brought it back to what it means to strategy. That’s my focus in this thread.
In any event, I found that post by just searching the thread for “Chun”. It’s not that hard. This thread is 20 pages long, at this point. If I were to put all decent information into the first post, the first post would read like 10 pages itself… so it’s pointless to do so. Just search the thread. It’s not that hard.
I like Sakura the best in SF4, she is cute and funny.
Chun I don’t like…Her feet just too fat.
Sorry off the topic.
With the Chun match, at first I like to rush the fuck outta her and try to stun her real quick, while focus absorbing whatever fireballs i can.
If I can stun her , great, I turtle it out after and pick out my damage, if not, I go for baiting.
Only bad thing is her jabs and fast walk speed allow her to throw you more often than others. So again you gotta pick your spots to do damage. Should always try to focus Hazanshu, you’re trying to get whatever damage you can, not put yourself in the same throw scenario.
Other than that I abuse the fuck outta overheads, then I’ll bait and punish SBK.
Counter poking is semi important too. You can poke with cr mk and buffer CoD, but its probably better to just do cr mk because if she’s far the 2nd hit of CoD will whiff. It beats st fierce and st forward? i believe.
Also cr RH outranges her fierce and mk. So its something to do once in a while.
I hate Chun and Cammy, god damn 2 hit jump ins and cannon spikes.
See, I think Cammy is much easier to deal with. Most often she tries to be the aggressor, and with that in hand… you just gotta bait shit out. All her moves leave her to be punished hard. Picking your spots against Cammy seems much easier to do than against a Chun.
That was the part that I thought is most helpful, and that’s not in the OP. As for just searching, well, okay, you got me there. This whole match theory thread contains a lot of information that can just be read from frame data, just with added bits of tendencies of each character and your/whoever’s Abel.
I don’t really think it would be pointless to add more information to the OP, but, uh… whatever, it’s your thread and it’s what you see fit. just trying to help organize the thread =p
resres:
have you seriously looked around the other forums?
This is honestly the most organized and informative threads because it actually has USEFUL info. Not like the Blanka forum, ewww.
While there are probably a few things some of the matches are missing, its still the best thread IMO.
yes I have. I never said this wasn’t organized and informative, lol, I just offered a suggestion.
Also, did you notice that the Abel subforums is one of the most active ones? Yet, we’re also the most hostile and egocentric group. heh
annnnd this is getting off-topic.
We’re also the sub-forum with pretty much the best information. Other sub-forums are complete shit in comparison. I went out of my way months ago to kinda be a dick (well, not too far out of my way… it’s kinda natural), so that I could control conversation to some degree, since I didn’t want a sub-forum with a bunch of scrubs playing nice with each other, posting inane shit.
So… this is what we have. Yeah, there’s more bullshit drama here, no question… but when you need to know something, and you’re not too lazy to search, you can find really useful information on almost anything.
As far as I see it, anything we can do, as a forum, to keep kraiden from feeling like his posts are valued, should be done. So bring on the snarky elitism.
On a somewhat related note, I got some new shit from Juicebox that I’m gonna throw up right now.
Agreed and good shit
Dhalsim and Honda sections updated with that juice.
Abel family is the best!!
Random trick I have for the Sim section
If he teleports behind you, do f + mk, dash then you can make him guess by either crouching or not.
If you don’t crouch he’ll land in front of you.
If you DO crouch, he’ll land behind you, and this is VERY ambiguous.
Anyone have a good amount of experience with Ken’s? (Not necessarily Dr. Chaos)
Good Ken’s are so rare but wenever i fight them it is super hard/annoying
Step Kick/Low Forward owns me like the first page section on Ken says
without EX especially, i get completely dominated trying to get in
anyone got any advice?
Deep step kicks can be TT after block (if you can’t see the shin, it’s deep). I think the only air normal you can’t EX TT is j.hp, his safe jump-in. Don’t be afraid to FA/FADC his step kicks too. At a good range, he can’t really follow up with anything. Unless he jumps at you, but thats why you dash out. Now that I think about it, FADC is kinda important in this matchup. I found that neutral jumping helps against step kicks too, since he usually follows a step kick with another one, or c.mk, both which you can hit with a neutral j.lp or j.lk. If Ken tries to kara focus to gain ground rather than step kick, thats easily punishable with TT or a crossup. or just FA/FADC with him, since he will probably dash. oh, and i almost forgot, normal throws can work wonders if the ken can read your TT attempts.
Ken will keep you guessing, almost like Abel’s game, between a kara throw (instead of a TT) and a BnB that usually ends with an EX tatsu or shoryu. One thing that really hurt me when I first had trouble with Ken was doing the option select throw to try and avoid a kara throw. I don’t think it worked well because one, it didn’t really tech kara throws that well, and two, he can read it easily (pattern or just hearing me press the buttons after each hiti) and shoryu me. If you have trouble with kara throws, then treat like Abel’s TT and backdash or neutral jump. You won’t get the full shoryu if he goes for it… unless he does a kara SRK, but… nahhh.
Ken is tricky, but I think once you get the ground game, he’ll try to jump around annnnd it’s very easy to AA him with c.hp or whatever. basically, don’t jump in as you will eat a shoryu (crossup and you’ll eat a auto correct srk). don’t wheel kick when he’s step kicking his way in. FADC when you can, and finally, try to mix him up before he gets you into his mixup.
I have video against my friend’s Ken. i dont think it’s going to be uploaded soon, but in our first set, i do all the things you probably shouldn’t do, and then in the second set, i adjust and do all the things you should do. i’ll post it up whenever it’s up, cause it would help a lot in what im trying to explain. =p
I have another post in this thread about ken. it’s more in-depth than this post but i was more all over the place cause i didn’t grasp the matchup too well at that time.
Honestly, Ken’s one of the fights that I spend more time turtling than trying to get in. Until Ken gets a knockdown on you, he doesn’t have anything dangerous enough to make you start pressing buttons. Step kick moves him forward, but it’s not like he’s at any kind of super-advantageous position once he’s there. If you’re blocking, what the hell is he going to do after a low forward? If he’s dumb enough to cancel it into fireball, you can blow through that shit with whatever you want. This leaves him with kara-throw, which is the only thing in his arsenal you should ever be worried about. There’s not much I can say about it, other than to know what it looks like and always be prepared to tech it.
All of this patience will be rewarded when he does something retarded like jumping in or throwing a fireball. Abel AA’s Ken for free, and his fireballs are so slow that you have all day to choose your counter, be it ultra, EX CoD, or just blowing through with an FA. Now you’ve got your knockdown, and you didn’t even have to think too hard to get it!
Highly simplified, but I honestly feel this is the best way to approach this matchup (and most of the other ones, as well). There’s simply no reason to be eating unnecessary damage from a character that has such a bad time with down back. Annoy him with standing short and blocking, and just wait for the inevitable impatience. This will get you very far.
my own ridiculous Abel matchup chart. Every matchup except Akuma becomes a 6-4 in Abel’s favor if you get the first knockdown (against Akuma it never gets better than 4-6)… there are a few I’d say are 7-3 if you get a knockdown early. Boxer, Claw, Dictator and Viper all have serious problems on wakeup against Abel.
Abel - so retarded
Akuma - 4-6 unless the Akuma actually knows what he is doing after a knockdown. in which case, 3-7
Blanka - 5-5
Boxer - 5-5
Cammy - 4-6
Chun - 5-5
Claw - 6-4
Dan - 5-5 (aww)
Dhalsim - 6-4
Dictator - 4-6
El Fuerte - 6-4
Fei Long - 5-5
Gen - 5-5
Gouken - 6-4
Guile - 7-3
Honda - 5-5
Ken - 4-6
Rose - 7-3
Rufus - 5-5 slight edge to Rufus
Ryu - 5-5
Sagat - 5-5
Sakura - 6-4
Seth - 5-5 but varies. Turtle Seths get owned by Abel. Seths that play the matchup properly own Abel. Seth is such a complicated character and is effective in so many ways I don’t think this number really says much about the matchup.
Viper - 6-4
Zangief - 3-7
Abel wins more than he loses, especially if you can get a good vortex going. These matchups reflect the stand up game more than anything; I’m of the opinion that everyone in the cast (except Akuma) is in serious trouble after you knock them down. There are very few characters in this game that can bait and punish FADC SRK attempts like Abel can. Clever use of the roll after the different knockdowns Abel can get make it a very potent offensive tool. The sheer breadth and damage of Abel’s options is just too much… he doesn’t have option selects like Gief does, but he doesn’t especially need them. You know the sense of dread you get when a good Gief knocks you down? IMO, if you know what you are doing you should inspire that same feeling in anyone you play against. Except Akuma.
But then again, a lot of this depends on your opponent respecting your options. People who mash throw, SRK, SPD etc. are actually tougher to play against people who understand the game and the characters.
edit: come to think of it, Seth doesn’t become 6-4 or 7-3 on wakeup either. Shoryuken, an invincible SPD, a good back dash plus teleport, even a crappy port… too many escape routes.