can someone help me with abel vs vega or bison that is where I have the most trouble
It really depends on what the person is doing, so, I’ll just give general stuff.
Vs Vega:
Pros:
- Stuns easy
- Doesn’t hit as hard as Abel
- Can get mixed the fuck up on wakeup
- Hard to land ultra on you.
Cons: - Can fuck you up with randomness
- Covers a lot of space with his pokes
- CAN keep you out OKAY
The basic idea of this match is to knock him down and then go for broke.
You land one knockdown all you gotta worry about is EX Flipkick.
I would recommend focusing and/or getting hit a couple of times to get an ultra, this gives you huge advantage from the start and Vega gives you something that he doesn’t want to give you. This also takes away his backflip run away option.
Once you get the knockdown you wanna mess with his charges, cross him up / roll. IF he gets hit with the crossup, he’s still charging down, watch for izuna drop/wall dive, then jump back fierce to beat / cover the attack space. OR you could just go for TT.
Things to look for:
- Jump up
- backflip
If he backflips, ultra him
But generally this is a very bad position for Vega.
IF you happen to get knocked down, watch out for jump in fierce, or d/f + RH.
If they d/f RH, they can option select throw or low forward flipkick/EX wall dive and combo you. Block low and look for a throw.
Other than that, the damage output is HUGELY in your favor, I would just worry about getting hit with EX anything, usually you can get stunned with a few hits after that, depending on situation and how many hits you took before if at all.
Vs Bison:
Pros:
- Has you move into your territory to land damage
- IF you stay grounded, hard to land ultra on you.
- You can keep him out SEMI easy enough
- Loses to crossup, and you have a bijillion options after you cross him up
Cons:
- IMO, you have weaker rushdown then he does, BECAUSE 1. The frames are in his advantage and 2. You’re rushdown leaves gaps, Bison’s is just more “SOLID” so to speak, doesn’t push him out as much as Abel’s, meaning Abel has to take a little more risk when getting back in and the damage output isn’t as much in this situation as Bisons (will be explained later)
- He has longer reach than you
- He just moves faster.
Ok so,
Step 1… Knockdown
Step 2… Crossup
Step 3… Mix up
Once you cross him up his only options are to teleport and jump because.
- Loses charge
- You have frame advantage from the block stun
- Bison has no serious GTFO option
- If he teleports, you can ultra him
Depending on the Bison player here’s some stuff you wanna do:
-Runaway and stomp type Bison, just jump fierce and backdash.
If he does EX stomp, backdash xx TT punish, then crossup.
Devil reverse can get spaced with jump fierce as it covers a huge chunk of air.
-Rush down Bison:
This is where it can get tricky, he’s faster than you in this situation. Your fastest attack is a normal throw at 3 frames, its sad honestly. After that its a st jab at 4, wtf. The only saving grace is regular TT and the ultra. lol
In a rushdown situation Bison can just fuck your shit all day. He can st RH you in the corner, sure you can EX CoD out, but he can just dash in and throw you right outta it.
He can tick throw you a lot of the time, because like i said the frames are in his advantage. He can tick but just as easily counter hit and combo you for a knockdown.
SO what do you do?
When he’s at the right range I personally like to just hit him with SOMETHING, either a st short or a st mk. The st mk has a pretty nice hitbox and should at least trade or counter hit. But don’t do it after short scissor, just wait that shit out.
Remember all you gotta do is land ultra to turn the match around, Abel’s ultra is his best tool IMO.
It really depends on the bison player. But abel can negate most of his moves with rolls. Demon reverse can be skyfalled. Psycho crusher can be punished easily or avoided altogether. His HK can be focused>tt. J.HP can stuff or trade with headstomp, but he loses health quicker than abel. Crossups can mess with his charge game so go for it. Just be aware that his HK is a nice AA.
Just to add to the bison matchup thing, Nick T you forgot to mention another important wakeup option for him, wake up ex crusher (i think this is one of the more popular wake up option for him…)
anyway, if you can bait the wakeup ex crusher by making him think that you’re going to jump on his wakeup, then block the ex crusher and you should be abel to sweep him afterwards but depends on the distance as well, if you’re exactly in front of him when he did ex crusher, you might need to dash and sweep(unconfirmed).
as for his HK, just dont stupidly jump in on him, a good player will never let you get away with jumpin in while he’s just standing there ready to HK yo ass. 
and also regarding HK, s(lightly outside HK range or slight inside) you can throw out a s.mp and if he did HK afterwards, either you will win(counter hit) or it will trade (but he will lose more health than you), but if you messed up the timing, you eat the HK lol
ehh I could list counter pokes all day, but its not too worthwhile for Abel in the long run. Only in some matches it helps.
im sure you could.
in case you missed my post
as for counter pokes all day, i could do that too but i chose to share what i thought is one of the more convenient tool to use against bison. sure there are counter pokes that’s hard and might be not worthwhile but im just saying from experience that s.mp IS convenient. The fact that you can throw it early and it can stuff/trade with s.hk, in your favor.
obviously yeah somethings in some matches sometimes helps. if you want to say what i suggested is not helpful/impractical or whatever, at least dont counter it with vague shit like that. i was just tryin to cover an area you missed(bison wakeup ex crusher) and added somethin i thought worth sharing regarding this matchup and you went with “ehhh i could do what you did all day but its not worthwhile”.
If you are gonna try to counter poke s.HK, it should be with cr.mk imo. Wayyy more damage out of it and you lose the risk of trading since it lowers your hitbox.
I will just remove it, then.
:mad: this is beyond wrong thread…
More range as well, right? Plus it looks sweet to hit cr.mk>cod. I use that vs sagats s.HK.
Hey! I actually did an update. Added some to Akuma/Gief sections. Now… take it all with a grain of salt. I don’t even play this game anymore…
Just to add to the Akuma part, you have to chill especially if you are knocked down, or you are getting demon’d.
I was playing Ed Ma back in NCR and he was showing me all these fucked up OS Akuma has on Abel. One of them is a meaty dive kick (his regular one, not demon flip) OS into demon, which pretty much catches all your reversals, so you are forced to block. Other one is meaty deamon-flip palm into demon, which is basically the same thing except alot trickier, cause once he trains you to block he’ll start abusing other Akuma bullshit. Thankfully he’s the only player i’ve seen actually use these
Anyways, I’ve gained a new perspective on the matchup, which is to basically shut down his RH. Abel actually has really good tools against it when playing mid-range. If you see that the Akuma is antsy and just likes to press HK as many times as he can, just get some space between you and him and start punishing his kick. Easiest way to do this is to just dance around the HK range and make him whiff one, after which is a free 300+ combo for you. Cr.mk the whiff and combo off it, which you will only need to do a couple times to win the round. You can even start throwing cr.mk’s out preemptively because its weird hitbox makes it hard to punish. St.lk is also a really good poke in this matchup, since it stuffs ALL his normals, even his sweep, he’s gonna have to take risks to counter your lk. Once you get him scared of throwing out HK’s… well, thats it, his main deterrent that kept you playing reactive is gone, now you can start setting the pace of things (although you still have to deal with all his other bullshit).
Of course, if he does manage to land a HK or even make you block it (which he will do this eventually, you cant shut this down forever), just chill. HAV is right on point with this, you really get nothing out of pressing buttons when he’s rushing you down, holding db is pretty much a must at this point.
Im currently working on a auto-correct roll that follows Akuma’s teleport wherever he decides to go, its really awkward at first but if you get it down it gives you a free fwd.mk combo. Its just HK roll on his wakeup, but delay the HK just a little bit, that way if he decides to teleport forward your roll will auto correct and follow his ass. You still have to take the risk in rolling on his wakeup though, which loses to MANY things, but i think the risk/reward in that is pretty much worth it since it gets him scared of teleporting if you actually punish it. Akuma that doesnt teleport = just another shoto with really shitty health.
These should help
Claw :-
Bison :-
If You don’t have an account just copy and paste the links into the redirector below :-
I’m starting to think the Ken matchup isn’t that bad. Other than limited wakeup options w/o bar for EX roll, it’s not too bad. Ken will force a guessing game, but so can you. If you treat Ken’s kara throw like Abel’s TT, then you can use the same strats to bait or punish kara throw attempts. I find that neutral jump lk does wonders. It can start a block string or TT attempt, you can roll to juke 'em out, or if Ken does his step kick instead (on accident, usually), then you cross them up and you feel all good inside.
I used to think the matchup was hell for Abel, but really, your air game plays a bigger role. This includes going air-to-air to him, or waiting for Ken to jump. Obviously you don’t just crouch and wait for him to jump, but when the ground game is even and you feel an urge to jump, just wait for him to come. FA some of his normals will usually ease up the ground game.
Gief section updated one more time with a video I don’t like at all, and some dirty, dirty tricks that we all should at least know about.
Again… it’s really just fortunate that there are only like 2 Giefs actually doing this stuff. The rest just churn butter.
Many thanks HAV for your posts. Helps me out. I dont usually have trouble w online giefs but once in a blue moon, i always get one that delays lariat on wakup, therefore killing my neutral j.hk. much appreciated.
the thought of playing a gief that effectively uses most of those option selects scares the fuck outta me
so i doubt ill be playing UltraDavid anytime ever…
I’ve played one before. Incredibly bad matchup… much worse than 7-3 IMO. Maybe the game’s only 8-2
i thought that Gief/Seth was 8-2, or maybe im wrong
either way its scary
UltraDavid thinks that the matchup is only 6-4 Gief now after playing Combofiend’s Abel, apparently.
I doubt Combofiend agrees!