I was literally clueless, I don’t ever fight good cammys. I fought one once and same shit happened. I gotta hit up that training mode son. Live and learn, was a good experience, I think Mr SNK got 4th or so and HAV couldn’t play in it 
^
I find that with rush down Cammys the best thing is to block everything and wait it out.
So long as I keep in mind that she can’t cross me up with a Cannon strike [air drill] and I don’t have to stand up to block it all I’m doing is zenning that shit out, blocking low and looking out for techs.
Do you play any King of Fighters? I think of her like Kim.
The main thing is to not panic and start trying to punish things I can’t.
Have you seen the Rico vs Sanford match from BA7?
No offence to RS but that vid is pretty much the opposite of what Abel needs to do vs Cammy lol.
so in that video someone said that cammy’s abel 2nd worst matchup behind rufus…
Just played Mr SNK, and as I thought he had alot of stuff I havent seen, but I still see the match in Abels favor. Also apparently, I can’t combo his honda lol
Yeah the match is bad, I actually have a harder time vs Cammy than Rufus.
So, let’s get some discussion going in here.
Is anyone even still playing? 
I’m not… but I was watching the old Justin/Sanford/Yipes 3-way FT7 from Season’s Beatings II today, and it got me thinking about a discussion we had a few months back where I compared Abel to Magneto. Watching it today started giving me ideas about how I need to play Abel (whenever I start playing again…), because so much of the stuff carries over (not that I was ever good at Marvel…).
Yipes’ Magneto was so fucking good though. This was 2007, so he was fresh off winning Evo with the infamous IFC Keri Strugg performance, so he was at the top of his game. The offense was just incredibly smart. Very patient… find a spot… bait the assist… murder. Of course, he had a million and one ways to land the hit, but the most interesting part, to me, was how many ways he had to bait out the assist, and he almost never went in, without being cognizant of the assist. Now, calling your assist in Marvel isn’t quite as risky as DP’ing in SF4, so you can form your offense without having to worry about DP’s all the time, but it is interesting to watch the ways in which offensive players deal with defensive options.
So, how do you all deal with reversal/backdash/etc. with Abel? What are some of the best ways you all have come up with to keep Abel’s momentum when you begin to establish it?
BTW, I don’t know how much more I’m gonna be doing on character specific match theory right now… I haven’t been playing at all, so I can’t really expand on anything that’s already there, and I’m not too knowledgeable on the fights I haven’t covered yet (outisde of Gief… but I don’t feel like writing about that fucking match), so I don’t know how valuable my input would really be.
Dealing with Chun’s hazanshu:
Focus attack from mid range works. However. a good chun will rarely hazanshu from far. She’s got so many good normals to outpoke Abel like standing HK which can only be stopped by c.lk or early s.mp. If only Abel could counterpoke her HK with c.mk like Sagats.
Hazanshu is used by Chun mainly used a cancel from a normal move. Eg, c.lp, pause s.hk (to hit the throw escape), hazanshu. Basically its her safe poke string ender and does a lot of chip damage and is safe to boot. I can block everything in the beginning of a match and find that I lost 20% of my life to chip. The more I play this matchup, I find Abel has the defend, defend and defend but learning to deal with poke->hazanshu is very important due to the chip damage. I’ve been trying out different solutions and here and my thoughts on it so far:
-
FA, dash forward cancel
Its good that Abel is in her face but the problem is that its only level 1 FA so her attacks will beat yours and the safest option for Abel is throw which she will tech. The focus damage means taking risks with ex(TT) etc is not worth it. Sadly, there doesn’t seem to be enough time for Abel to charge his FA to lvl 2 safely. -
FA, dash back
Safest option without meter. s.lk to stop her followup pokes or run until you recover your FA damage. But then, I’m sick of defending/running away from Chun all the time. -
exTT
Have to time it really late. Problem is doesn’t work if hazanshu not deep enough ie only her foot hits and timing varies according to hazanshu strength. Does good damage but harder to do on reaction compared to… -
exCoD
Very easy to do on reaction. Does crap damage though but gives Abel breathing space. You can always focus cancel into c.hp but is it worth it without ultra? -
focus dash forward -> throw/s.hp etc
I’ve been trying to use this but its hard. The timing of the followup is strict. s.hp followup not guaranteed but its Abel’s best chance to turn a hazanshu into a damaging combo. I think for lk hazanshu, nothing is guaranteed after Abel fdfs. -
backdash
Have to do late. Followup with s.lk or exTT. I hardly use it.
Reversal
Block, early roll or ex roll. Eg, your down to your last hair of life and you’ve knocked down a dp character so meaty jump into ex roll and ultra the whiffed dp. Use safer blockstrings like c.lk, clp x2 and wait for reversal. When jumping in, make sure it hits as deep as possible.
Backdash
step kick, c.hk or dash TT. Step kick is the best answer cause you can get an ultra. Abel’s c.HK is slow so has to be done as soon as you see the backdash.
Momentum
Basically you have to play the player instead of the character. If he is jump happy against anti (ex)TT do poke string-> step kick->s.hp etc. If he’s defensive, TT more. Reversal happy, poke and wait. I find with Abel I have to read my opponent’s habits and choose the right time to rushdown.
thats a good question HAV, but, it kinda goes with everyone. Keeping up with momentum and such and knowing what to do-- that’s what makes a good player good. Or, recently we describe good players as having a “good rushdown” which can essentially be broken down as to how you respond to pressure and how you push forward when you have a knockdown/the momentum in the game. I’m not at that point yet. I mean, I can take my momentum and churn it out to a W. I can push my opponent and bait him to do certain things, but to do these things consistently, especially when they switch styles and react differently, is hard to recognize and take advantage. I noticed good Abels player good footsies.
so to answer how to deal with backdash/reversals when you have the momentum… it’s all experience and knowledge of your matchup. the con of trying to bait something is that you lose momentum. the con of rushing down is you lose momentum. so… it’s all rock paper scissors. there is no safe or correct way. once you get at a certain point, you just study your opponent’s tendencies rather than reading these matchup strategies since it’s not a simple formula where you just read the solution and “get it”. It helps to know what moves have priority over others and all that, but you essentially can get that from frame data. it is basically frame data broken up into words. i’m not saying it’s not helpful, just, it’s not all black and white.
yeah. go abel.
edit: wow, this post sounded weird when i reread it. i hope it makes sense.
Also if you have godlike reactions you can c.fp ultra Hazanshu (Also lp super, the timing isn’t that hard for super) I was practicing this against the light version today (tough but you can do it) obviously it’s easier against the slower heavier versions. Also you can FS them too although time timing is also tight but seems to be easier than c.fp - ultraing it.
Doing that in training is quite hard in a match will probably only occur now and then it’s probably safer to spend the meter and ex roll ultra.
Peace
I didn’t ask the question to get help. I asked the question to get some discussion going on the specific things you do to bait shit out, so we can share tactics. Obviously, it’s mix-ups, and it’s RPS to a certain extent… I’m asking for people to share how they mix shit up. Or do you guys just go in at random? Just curious.
IMO you can’t be random with Abel… he has a ton of mixups, but in any given match, I won’t use them all. I’ll stick to a few so that I can come to understand how the other guy is going to respond to them and then go from there. If you use the same setups, you can make a better guess of what he’s going to do to get out of your mixups and then do something else to counter them
ie. against guys I notice are backdash happy, I don’t go for meaty TTs and instead do meaty short OS sweep/dash & TT depending on how fast the other guy’s dash is. Against shotos, I’ll use rolls timed to mess up attempts at reversals, and I’ll hang out in range of step kick so that they are less likely to shoryu since they would have no chance to FADC if I did nothing, throw out meaty step kick or sweep canceled into roll
and so on
yeah, I assumed the question was just thrown out there for discussion, not for a certain answer… and that’s what I tried to answer.
to skim down my last post, I basically said I try to read peoples’ tendencies and how they switch it up from round to round. Against my friend who plays Sagat, he has a tendency to dp after a fadc dp, not a throw or another jab. My friend who plays Ken, whenever he senses pressure from a c.lp/lk block string, he neutral jumps cause he thinks I always go for the TT.
On wakeup, it’s a different story. often times I dash in, block for like half a second or do a normal to force them to think I’m going to do a jab string or crossup instead of a TT, and then decide. Sometimes I do get in your face and force you to guess what I do, but but I’m not there yet to do that as consistently as others… which I was trying to get at with the whole “having a good rushdown”.
I don’t think you can just go in at random unless it’s the first time you’re “going in” in which anything can happen, but after you punish with lets say a TT at wakeup, your opponent is going to think differently so I think it’s more reading what the “common” tendencies are in these matchup guides, then seeing whether your opponent fights off these tendencies.
i don’t think I can get into specific things I feel it’s all in the momentum of the game so I do things differently depending on the situation. Unless I watch video of myself, then I can realize my mistakes but other than that it just feels like a guessing game.
I dont really know what to say, despite been playing abel and strictly abel for nearly a year now, i’m still relatively a beginner when it comes to fighting games so I dont really have insights of someone who’s more experienced. I believe I still have plenty to learn.
For the first question, regarding reversals I usually try to play a little reckless in the first round to see if my opponent is the kind who mashes dp during my blockstrings. I’ll proly try to put it in their minds by doing a cr.lkx3 s.lk followed by a f.mk and maybe the next time when I want to try and bait a reversal, i’ll do the strings but after the s.lk instead of f.mk i’ll crouch (so my opponent will see a ‘movement’ and that can trigger the reversal IMO)…
…as for the rest, i cant say much… :/. Momentum-wise, i have good/bad experience with trying to keep momentum, i guess it depends on the matchup/opponent skills and all that other stuff you realize of your opponent during the fight itself… I guess the more momentum you have, the less risk you need to take…
edit: and yeah what sakeido posted too
for this discussion it is all about basing off of instinct and backing it with probability
for instance if you can falling sky a back dash such as baison(boxer) ryu or sagat you should use it to counter an escape option because jumps and back dash are common but for chunli dhalsim and the like you want to jump over or dash with them or wait and hp rekka their recover
srry my english is weak lol lol ok moving on
you have to convince them that their escape route is futile to do this you need to land your punishes more than once but dont worry if they get away not even shiro guesses right always just remember you will be back with a better more educate guess
so now you condition them to stay put
really bad or really good players will reversal so this warrants a roll or neutral jump pending on match up pr even back dash just avoid it and play it out
the key to reversal bait is to maintain pressure after for example when you neutral jump you press lk if you back dash you lk roll back in or poke if you roll and they get away you walk up think about this concept
ok back to staying put, the decent or average player will block you want to feel this out with normal throw if they are stupid enough to tech bring in your TT on like 3rd (not next) mixup
another staple is lp lp lp st lk i dont understand why so many american abel players step kick after this it is not tight string and will be countered in japan over here you must mix up the numbers of lp lp lp lk and react accordingly as well as make a good decision.
You can falling sky a Boxer’s backdash? Or was that your bad English?
Also, I do agree with many of your points but I don’t think you can always rely on training your opponent to do one thing. Some people have a gameplan going in. Or some people fight off their normal tendencies… especially under pressure.
The thing regarding the c.lp x3, s.lk, step kick… Abel players know that, it’s just a bad habit due to online players/below average players don’t react to it as fast as good players. It’s a given reversal if they can read it… but more often times they don’t and it turned into a bad habit. That’s my theory… and I know it just doesn’t apply to me, although now I just sit and wait for a reversal or neutral jump. When the step kick does work though, it puts pressure on them. Iunno, I don’t see it as dangerous as you do, but I see what you’re saying.
You can do this since Boxer becomes airborn during his back dash
What I try to do when I’m facing someone I’ve never played before is spend the first part of the round figuring them out. I’m patient, play some footsies, see if I can get into step kick range etc. If I get the feeling that my opponent likes to be defensive, I’ll try get in a step kick xx dash and then just crouch block to see what happens, making sure to watch for throws, back dashing, neutral jump etc and play defensive until we’re both back to even ground… Sure, this first opportunity could be a good situation to press the advantage, but playing conservatively early on is generally what I like to do.
After establishing their play style, I can start to open the mind games up a little… Chances are, if they saw me get point blank and block the first time, next time they’ll be looking to their other options… Throws, overheads, etc, so I’ll try a cheeky throw, looking to get my knockdown, and then mix up from there
While pressing the advantage can be hard, I try to do enough to get them thinking “He’s coming after me… time to reversal” and then just bait. Crouch block, EX roll, back dash, empty cross up… all decent options when my opponent is waking up, depending on character of course. These all serve the purpose of trying to force a mistake that I can punish. If it does, great… my plan worked… if not, depending on the situation I can either take initiative and go balls out with the rush down, adapting when I finally get tagged for being too aggressive, or just chill out, be defensive etc, if I’m being rushed.
I tend to take more of a “get in and block” approach these days, and it seems to work fine for me… While people tend to complain about Abels “get off me” moves, I think his EX moves work reasonably (not amazingly) well in most circumstances, even though it’s a pretty much a gamble. The key is to be doing the pressuring, as that is one of Abels strongest points. If your opponent can’t get their options and damage off, then they’re guaranteed to be getting frustrated, which leads to mistakes, which we should all be thriving on.
Wow, I never knew that. And this works with Balrog (Boxer), Ryu, and Sagat?
It works on a bunch of people… I know for certain that Boxer and Sagat are two of them… I haven’t personally tested against Ryu though
Yeah I think it works on all the cast, not too sure about the shorties, eg. fuerte, honda, though.
Ok, tested it. Timing seems strict. Would this be even useful? If a player anticipates a step kick and backdashes, would this be a viable option? I mean, you’d have to be really keen to use it and predict a backdash rather than a neutral jump, block, or reversal.
I’m having trouble against playing a friend’s Guile. Like HAV’s strategy says, Guile often puts up this wall. I feel that I’m way too predictable in my approach and that I can’t properly get passed the wall. He plays a more aggressive Guile than others. He can react to my (EX) wheel kicks with his airgrab and all. I’m not sure how to go about this since this is supposed to be an “easy” matchup. Is it because IM playing aggressive and should sit back, or should be even more aggressive when trying to break through his wall? Obviously if I had video it would help… but what’s a more general way to go about this?
Maybe it was just a bad day… but even on a good day, I would say I’d go about 5-5 against him. =p