really needs that cr.mk hitbox extended range
Only a week til the patch and they still haven’t announced the changes for the rest of the cast, huh. Here are some changes I’d love to see but I’m sure are very unlikely.
- Improve headstomp tracking. Jesus christ it’s terrible. How do you make headstomp track worse than it did it in SF4? Even using it on a cornered opponent is suicide because if they walk forward a couple millimeters or so it’ll whiff.
- Better crossup hitbox on jumping MK. Or hell, give jumping HP its obnoxious crossup capability from SF4.
- Give crouching HP a hitbox that hits behind it a little bit so it’s better anti-air against people jumping right on top of you. It’d also be nice if it recovered a little faster so that you could potentially juggle another couple normals off it on counterhit. Why does Ryu get the godlike mexican uppercut when he already has DP?
- I understand LK scissors not being even on block any more, but maybe change it from -2 to -1 at least? Wouldn’t really change much since Julia would still be able to punish with super. It’s one of those tiny seemingly meaningless changes that Capcom loves making so this seems the most likely.
- Raise damage on MK scissors from 70 to either 80 or 90? It does the least damage of the three and it’s nearly impossible to juggle afterwards from midscreen unless you like that quick combo button anyway, it’d be another pointless buff. I dunno, MK version feels like it needs some sort of purpose.
- Slide has 15 frames of startup and is -12 on block. Rolento’s slide is 9 frame startup and is -9 on block. That doesn’t seem very fair to me… it might just be able to catch someone walking backwards if it was also 9 frames instead of 15.
-j.MK hit/block stun. Mediums seem really weak in blockstun in this game and it feels way too easy to get boost combo’d right after you land if you try to go for stuff.
-Damage boost on MK & HK Scissor kick. I know there’s juggle potential but tag canceling and follow ups suffer considerably with scaling.
-Headstomp doesn’t put people into blockstun early enough in mid air. People walk in and out of it very easily. Easier than SF4.
-I want LK Scissor Pressure.
-Fix the Scissor kick charge cancel buffer. It’s difficult to stomach after playing him between AE and SFxT. I almost feel like I should drop Bison completely here so I don’t mix myself a lot between the two game’s timings and habits.
-EX-Scissor to get invulnerable frames to physical attacks along with projectiles
-Maybe extend hit box of launcher more upward for anti-airing? I like the idea of using it to anti-air, but I can’t do it with Bison. I can do it with Law and Poison a little more consistently.
That’s mostly it for now. Most of the “buffs” I want in SFxT are more systematic changes rather than character individual because I feel there needs to be more fundamental shifts in mechanics instead.
Give him a psycho ball.
[S]give him an overhead[/S]
in all seriousness, I don’t know. I do agree with LordBBH with fixing his crouch hp hitbox, I’m always so afraid to use it for that reason. Bison is very solid as is, having SSF4 scissor kick pressure is not necessary at all. Scissors is pretty much used as a combo finisher or extender. Hitbox improvements would be nice on his medium kick crossup, although not mandatory. It’s still is very easy to do ambiguous setups and jump ins with it, but it can whiff if you are not dead on sometimes with spacing and you can get in trouble. Hitbox buff would be helpful. Maybe fix the AA properties on stand hk. It has a buffed hitbox as a poke but as an AA characters fall through if your angles aren’t 100% down. I think it would be a fair buff, because Bison will not really get anything off of AAing with stand hk.
no nerfs. This character has nothing exploitable. I know Capcom hates Bison, but he doesn’t deserve any kind of toning down. Right now he is a very honest character that relies a lot on the player’s ability and knowledge- how it should be imo.
I will lol hard if Sakura’s EX Otoshi is better than headstomp, since it sounds like they’ve made it into pretty much a headstomp:
[LEFT]“The EX version of Sakura Otoshi reaches to the edge of the screen and has homing properties, making it a good move to use against projectile characters.”[/LEFT]
I think his scissors need work:
-Most importantly: fix the charge buffering issue…there’s no reason why he should be the only one to suffer from this
-As mentioned before, ex scissors seems useless. It has full projectile invul but it travels too slowly across the screen horizontally and the ender seems to work as a hard knockdown so there’s no follow up tag in potential.
-I would like a consistent way to link into hk scissors from a hit confirm. Some 2 frame or something. Currently the only way to combo into it is cl hp xx hk scissors. I guess this isn’t strictly necessary because you can always juggle with hk scissors when you tag in, but otherwise it feels a little like a tease.
Aside from DR and teleport, I think his special moves kinda suck. It would be nice to buff those but he can survive without them.
That’s actually how Sakura’s EX dp+K has always worked in SF4.
Buffs I would like for M. Bison:
- Jump MK hitbox improved for crossup
- LK SK charge buffer issue fixed
- Ability to combo HK SK off a mp/mk normal
- St. HK Hitbox improved for AA
- Some kind of buff to EX SK, not much use for it now as is.
I dont think I’m asking for anything gamebreaking just a few tweaks here and there.
P.S.- On a side note, after using Bison in SFxT for so long and switching back to SSF4 briefly (Just to mix things up) it’s real easy to miss the little things that make me like better in this game than in SSF4. Like a St.mk leading to a whole lot and Devill Reverse being really useful.
So…Sak gets a ground bounce and Bison doesn’t? Logic, you never seem to impress me
oh lord all mighty god. Bison is so good and we get topics and posts like these : /
Compare his headstomp to things like marduk’s j hk, hwo’s chainsaw kick, etc…the common theme is a lot of force hitting directly downwards. Isn’t this what Bison’s headstomp is? Hell, even when you do his cross super or whatever it’s called he does a headstomp that bounces them up. This is more an issue on the grounds of logic rather than balance. Kind of like Kazuya’s scumbag overhead. It doesn’t look like an overhead, logic would favor those who want the animation changed in order for it to keep the overhead properties.
If you still think I’m qq’ing and don’t agree with this that’s cool. If you don’t accept this because you don’t understand my argument ask and I will try to clarify.
It’s better than his ssf4 version because he has so much mobility with after it lands it and opponent blocks, and you can feint crossups with skulldiver follow-up and it has a superior hit box. If it connects, free combo or launcher to massive damage. Also, having yomi when using it helps tremendously. Another cool thing is shoto’s fireballs have more recovery so headstomp can really make them think twice when bison has a charge.
Using it otherwise is still very risky and you can get punished for it vs some characters for free. The reward is more worth it in this game though.
I don’t see anything wrong with it, I think its a fair move.
Keep in mind Bison has many assets other characters would kill for. Also devils reverse is truth in this game.
3 frame cr short
-1 lk scissor on block
faster startup on cr. FP by about 2 or 3 frames and a hit-box extended behind bison more than it currently is.
cr. MK/MP should be able to combo into a HK scissor, or let us combo into st. FP off of st. MP possible.
EX scissor needs a use, currently it has none. Maybe make the second scissor portion of the hit wall bounce so the final sweep part of the move is used for positioning to combo off the wall bounce.
I’d like to see scissor kick loops, like after cr. lk, cr. lk, cr. mk xx mk scissor kicks, cr. mp xx mk scissor, cr. mp xx psycho crusher
Right now he only does like 260 damage with a midscreen scissor kick into psycho crusher, maybe if they give him more combo potential that will help him.
- Fix the Scissor kick charge cancel buffer
- Improve the block adventage for the LK SK and die Damage of the MK SK to 80 and of the HK SK to 100. This move is terrible
- The head stomp is bad aswell, please improve the tracking. Sometimes, your opponent doesent have to walk to avoid it
- The sHK needs a better hitbox for anti-airing, god…
Yes. CADC Scissor is so glitched to hell nobody is using Scissors outside of punishments. It’s really lame.
Scissors is only good for combo extending/tag to your partner or finishing with better positioning over psycho crusher. But to say Bison needs his pressure from ssf4 is ridiculous. And honestly most of these requests tell me most people aren’t playing this character correctly or to be blunt… suck…
Yeah chip pressure in general is not that good in here. Grey health negates a good chunk of it too. Bison needs some of his other buttons promoted more. His j.HP and j.MK hit boxes feel smaller along with s.HK. Far s.HP is a decent anti air esp with special cancel ability now.
He doesn’t have chip pressure. Its -2. If you have chip pressure, your opponent is terrible. He doesn’t do that anymore in this game.
Yeah, hitbox buff to his crossups would be amazing. They still work, but your spacing needs to be dead on or you will get punished.
I still say his air to air AAs are his best bet and are actually amazing if you have great reactions
Welp the changelist for Bison is out. Compared to most of the rest of the cast I think he got off easy. Let’s take a look:
This is really good. You can link into standing LK off a close MP, so using this as a frame trap is going to be even more viable.
Not a normal move I use much (and I can’t imagine anyone else really does either), but having it come out faster may make it more useful in the ground game. Far MP has less recovery frames than Far MK, so you won’t get punished by random jumps compared to when you whiff a Far MK.
Obviously this is bad. People that are looking for you to teleport on wakeup will be able to punish you more easily, Bison has other outs anyway (EX Psycho, EX Devil’s Reverse) but they require charge…
Frames weren’t changed but increased pushback will put you in a more neutral situation. I have mixed feelings about this because one of my favorite things to do is to throw out an LK scissors to see how they react on block, if they go for a crouching MK or something the first time I’ll do it again and this time go for a raw launcher afterwards to crush their low. So I’m not sure how this will pan out.
Possible juggles off EX scissors? This is definitely a positive. Damage scaling might ruin the damage on followups, but either way you’re getting better possible oki compared to the current version where you slide through and usually don’t have enough time to charge up another move because you wind up on the other side and they get up pretty fast (if they don’t roll, which’ll screw up your charge again).
I never use his super outside of combos, I don’t think throwing it out there randomly in the hopes that it’ll go through an attack is the smartest thing to do when there’s other things you could be doing with your meter. Using it to go through fireballs is something that could be useful though of course… once.
Damage nerf sucks, but Poison and Juri both had 150 damage throws that are also getting reduced (Poison’s to 140, and poor Juri’s to 130). Unfortunate but not a game-changer.
Well this is bad. Obviously I don’t like turtling, but sometimes I’ll do this to build some meter if I have the life lead and the opponent is still trying to make me come to them. Now there’s pretty much no reason to be doing that.
Nobody uses whiffed scissors to build meter so whatever. Having it build more meter on hit = good.
Bison’s definitely still gonna be good in 2013, if anything I think he’ll be even higher in tier lists because he didn’t get over-nerfed like certain other characters seemed to be. Note that a lot of characters have had increased recovery frames / reduced pushback on normals when chained, but Bison’s standing MK-HK chain has been untouched. So while we may have not gotten the buffs we were looking for, let’s thank our lucky stars he’s still playable.