If I understand correctly Chun DJ Roundhouse, Close FP xx Kikkoken should always dizzy an undizzied opponent.
diagonal j. hk: 11-16, 60
cl. hp: 11-15, 80
Kikkoken 8-12, 90
whoa, how do i pick chun dj?
diagonal jump.
Thanks for answering my questions Cauldrath. A lot of random stuns involving LL make a lot more sense now. At times I’d get hit by LL a few times (failing to rev SPD in between hits), run away scared of being dizzy for like a couple of seconds, get hit with some random cr. mk and then get dizzied anyway. Now I know I need to run away longer lol. It probably applies to HHS and a few other moves too.
This is what my disclaimer is for. The numbers might not be all-inclusive, because I just did the move a bunch of times and looked at how much dizzy it did each time. I usually just did the moves until it killed the opponent (Ken in this case) two or three times.
As for the dizzy timer numbers, those are always the same. The things I noted were different were the amount of dizzy timer that was reached before the dizzy occured, because I didn’t know about the actual dizzy number at the time.
Also, I did some work with the actual dizzy. The bit that gets set when a dizzy occurs is at FF8A3E, the timer for how long he is dizzied is at FF88AF (pauses during super freeze and doesn’t change until the character stands up even if they mash), the timer for how many frames a character is immune to dizzy is at FF8A41 (60 frames to start in all my tests and continues during hit pause, but not super freeze), and the look up table for how many frames a character gets dizzied is at 7A75E (which is mostly 150, but has a few 210). I guess I could also figure out how exactly shaking out of a dizzy works, but it pretty much just seems like mashing reduces the timer with each press.
That’s fine. My (admittedly limited) experience is that certain characters are harder or easier to dizzy than others, and that’s different than what your results suggest. So, I figure an experiment could be devised to test.
well, no. It isn’t different from what the results suggest. Those dizzy values are how much “dizzy damage” is done Right now It means nothing except for which moves are better for dizzying in comparison to others. we don’t know how much is needed to “fill the bar” and that, might be different for each character…
and until we get those we can’t figure out what it takes to dizzy a character. (except for already known dizzy combos because they probably do insane “dizzy damage” (for lack of a better term right now, actually, in retrospect I should have called it “stun” xD… I don’t play enough SF4 xD)
30 dizzy for the first, 34 for the second, 35 for 14 more, then it resets back to 34.
I guess I should make a single post that consolidates all my findings at some point.
Let me see if I got it right
Thanks a bunch, Cauldrath!
So on attacks, the Dizzy and DizzyTimer get incremented accordingly;
If you get dizzied, the Dizzy and DizzyTimer reset
The timer decrements each tick;
If the timer ends, Dizzy is reset;
Dizzy does not decrement: it either increases or gets reset due to getting dizzied or the timer ending.
What about the maximum dizzy value: is it constant, constant for the first dizzy only, or random?
Alright, so, going back to Big O’s question about why some throws do so much damage to Zangief. Zangief doesn’t actually have more health, the damage is just scaled more when it is applied to him, much the same way as you take less damage when you have less life. The thing is: normal throws ignore damage scaling. So, when Chun does 38 damage with an unteched throw, she does 38 damage with an unteched throw. When Zangief does 44 damage with a jab SPD, it gets hit with damage scaling like a normal attack does and drops to 36 on a normal character. Because of Zangief’s damage scaling, he takes only 33 damage from a fierce SPD, so even with a fresh Zangief you can do more damage with Chun’s throw. It gets worse as he takes more damage, too. His 360+kick move is similar: 44 damage versus Zangief, 49 versus another character. The first hit, however, isn’t scaled, so it always does 20, it’s the second one that drops.
You can’t combo into SPD, so how does damage scaling play into it? Or do you mean “damage scaling” as far as taking less dmg the less life you have? (It’s hella early, please forgive me not being snarky, just trying to understand).
I do not think SF2 has combo damage scaling. AFAIK, combos were not even supposed to happen in the first place.
Cauldrath is saying Zangief comes with an additional natural defense buffer that scales damage from most attacks down, but ignores normal throws. Some folks may think Zangief has higher vital/life/HP compared to the other characters but that’s not true: all characters actually have a fixed 144 points of life. In normal situations, the exact reason for Zangief taking less damage is semantics, but for normal throws, that’s where the differentiation is important and damage is resolved differently as a result.
More details about damage scaling based on life can be found from T.Akiba translated by NKI: T.Akiba’s SF2 Data
The only part of the explanation I don’t understand is “When Zangief does 44 damage with a jab SPD, it gets hit with damage scaling like a normal attack does and drops to 36 on a normal character.” Why does a 44-point spd get dropped to 36 points on a normal character?
Also, is Zangief’s damage scaling added together with normal life-based damage scaling (x+y%) or is it calculated on top of normal scaling (x% of y%)?
I know this, but I was asking because I was confused as hell about what he meant by damage scaling.
I hit zangief with five or six standing roundhouse’s in quick succession using Dictator yesterday and they didn’t dizzy. I kept expecting each one to dizzy but they didn’t, it was weird.
Oh, OK. BTW, you are a lie and a fake: Fei has no air throw!!! 
Edit WTF am I saying, he does have air throw. OMG.
Apparently all characters (or at least the ones I tested) have some damage scaling even from 100% life, but Zangief has more. This is probably how Akuma’s damage penalty was implemented in HDR: by setting his scaling lower. So, a fresh character besides Zangief starts with damage being scaled to about 82%, while Zangief has his scaled to about 63%. Will this ever matter when you are actually fighting? Probably not, but there’s the info.
Ah, that’s interesting. How were you able to determine that character-specific scaling existed? Was there an address that was set to a constant value for everyone except Zangief? I wonder if they added this to easily scale all the damage values from the CPS1 versions or maybe to adjust for the various AI difficulty levels.
every time i play ST i don’t understand what happened to the last two hours, i seriously just sat down what the helllll
Last time I was researching this (post #57), I found where the game looked up the damage values for throws and noticed that jab SPD was weird in that the value stored was 44, but then it got reduced to 36 before being applied to health. I believe at the time I was SPDing Dhalsim. Looking back at the numbers I put there, the damage reduction is 5/32, so he takes 84.375% damage. Running the same test with Zangief, the damage is reduced by 10/32, so he takes 68.75% damage.
Looking back on it now, the initial number is 42, but it gets sometimes gets 2 added to it on line 4BD2, but I’ve seen 0 and 3. (Maybe SPD damage is actually very slightly random, but the scaling makes it negligible?) Also, the scaling number doesn’t seem to change based on health, as regular damage scaling occurs later. For example, Ken at 14 health has a damage scaling number of 16 applied after the initial damage scaling, so the damage is reduced by 16/32, for 50%, like the T. Akiba’s table says, after being reduced by 5/32. This number is extracted from a table at E7D96, with an array index of however much health you have, so it looks like 24 (0-5), 20 (6-10), 16 (11-15), 12 (16-20), 8 (21-25), 4 (26-30), which corresponds to T. Akiba’s table. If you take damage with more than 31 health, this step of the calculation is skipped completely. Also, this scaling does apply to normal throws, it’s just that character-specific damage scaling does not.