Oh I’m sorry, then can you show me your copy of the Official UMVC3 Rulebook that specifically says how this game is meant to be played?? Because so many scrubs mention it, but I can never find it anywhere. & if, as you said, “winning does not equal fun,” then shouldn’t you be fine with losing to well thought out keepaway? In other words, if you’re not content with actually having to work and think to find a solution to beat keepaway, and instead would rather just complain about it, then maybe you should be the one to stick to SFXT, I heard they have gems you can buy that helps you block more
Hold on there.
If you aren’t trolling:
Spoiler
[LIST=1]
[]Are you saying all keep-away is running away and spamming projectiles? GR and Nemesis take offense to that.
[]Not fun for ANYONE? Are you serious? Haven’t you ever laughed you ass off at someone who runs into the same move over and over again? Welcome to keep-away. Plus, don’t you think that some people simply prefer avoiding close range fights or are character loyalists?
[]As it was meant to be played? Then why the hell are Arthur, Hawkeye, Chris, GR, and Hsien-Ko in this game? CAPCOM even said that they wanted to make true zoning and keep-away stronger in UMvC3.
[]Zoning is keeping someone where you want them. If that is truly “lame” to you, then you probably find this game boring.
[]Am I doing damage? Yes. Doesn’t that count as fighting? Or is doing damage off of anything other than a throw or jab “lame” to you?
[]SFxT is a zoning game? You mean to tell me Shitty Throws x Thirty Jabs is a zoning game? Where half the cast has some form of dodge or teleport? lolwut?
[*]On another note who do you use? If you are having trouble with fighting keep-away, you can ask questions here. (IS2FG, if you say team trenchcoat or something with Captain America or Hulk then I’m not even going to dignify you with a response.)
[/LIST]
I recently found a full keepaway team that I really like: Nemesis/Hsien-Ko/Arthur. When you finally get past Nemesis’ “rockets and tentacles”, you have to deal with Hsien-Ko’s “gongs of fury+random item toss”. At worst, Arthur is snapped in and the other two get bodied. At best, they get obliterated by Nem/Gold Hsien-Ko or XF2 Gold Arthur/Gold Hsien-Ko. I know TheTR3NDSETTA mentioned he runs a keep-away Nemesis, so your input would be valuable here:
What do you guys think of Nemesis’ keep-away?
It’s not bad, really. Air rockets are pretty fast and can be annoying to get around. His main problem is going to be characters that can attack from above (dive kicks, Zero’s buster, etc.). I don’t play the character, but from memory he doesn’t have many anti-air options except for AA command grab and AA rockets, and I don’t know what kind of properties they have.
I know this guy that used to play Ghost Rider with Cold Star. That shit was a bitch to get around. The only way I could beat him was by staying above him, because Ghost Rider doesn’t have any AA options. Nemesis might be similar.
Yeah, Nemesis’ AA game is ASS. He has two angles of attack: Directly above him and slightly higher than parallel to the ground. The first one is okay, but the second one was kind of dumb because Nemesis is so tall and slow that it is unlikely he will catch most characters at random. That’s why I run him with Hsien-Ko. When they get in, they then have to contend with Gold Hsien-Ko’s assist. Due to Nemesis’s height, it’s not really an anti-air, but it does punish people who jump in and press buttons.
The battle cry of a loser.
I find winning to be extremely fun, thank you. Certainly a hell of a lot more fun than losing.
So wait… even though you are Playing The Game Right (i.e. no zoning allowed), you are still getting bored? How is this possible?
You’re half right.
Most hilarous quote of the thread.
I have an idea for you: if you don’t care for zoning, why don’t you go play, well, any other fighting game series in existence? There’s no zoning in Tekken… go play that.
Marvel is the one series where zoning is taken somewhat seriously by the developers, instead of the half-assed cripple zoning in most other games. If you don’t like it, GTFO.
There’s a guy that plays a Nem backed by gold armor hsien-ko on XBL that has more than 2000+ games in and its still a 5th lord… it’s a nice lil’ strategy to run but more experienced players with a heavier keepaway are going to blow your shit up. I guarantee it.
While I do play a keepaway Nem, I do sneak some drones every now and then between my gameplay to do a bit of rushdown because it can get pretty predictable if you stick to his air rockets and tentacles only.
Also, watch out for teleports which thanks to Nem jump H (hits in front and behind him) are pretty punishable and can lead to a full combo and if you have a powerful DHC… a dead char for your opponent.
Any idea what his other assist is/was? I run Arthur in the back in order to help win projectile wars. I was fighting an Ammy who went into Cold Star and kept shooting Nem out of the air, so I started calling Arthur and jumping so he was going to get hit unless he super-jumped…
Man, I almost want to learn Doom or Strider now…
Forgive the late reply, I’ve been browsing a bit; just haven’t had the time to post another big reply. Enjoy the post Spider-Dan.
[details=Spoiler]
My mind is made up, your failure to once again mis-understand an implication is what’s confusing you.
I meant (and as I’ve said many times before) that Mystic Sword will not be able to stop everything, and you will still be getting chipped. The zoner will have no reason to rush you down.
Good zoners will pressure you well enough in order to make sure that you’re locked down temporarily. Thus, SoV and teleports are not the most beneficial things in the world as you will likely be temporarily pinned down. I know for a fact that Strange fair’s no better then most of the cast against MorriDoom, but of course that is merely a specific example.
No, it’s not bad for the zoner. The threat of teleports are always going to be there regardless, the zoner can neutral jump backwards; who said anything about strictly forwards? If the zoner is pressuring you while calling an assist, all options regarding SoV or 7rings are off the table unless the zoner is using projectiles with a lot of recovery, the assist stays on screen for a while; and you have meter to spare. Like today for example, I faced a really good V.Joe player; couldn’t happy birthday him once due to the fact that he would constantly apply pressure and airdash while calling assists.
If I’m playing correctly? I think you mean “if the opponent respects the threat”. Some people take it seriously, others will zone to their hearts content. It all depends on who the player is, who they’re using, and how they do things. It in no way is on me to “play correctly”, and I can assure you that I am.
We have a problem with zoning due to the fact that Strange isn’t the greatest of anti-zoners. Plain and simple. Are you insinuating that you know some type of special anti-zoning secret that we don’t? I’m sure if you actually played Strange on a regular basis, and fought good zoners; you’d understand. But alas, that is not the reality of the current situation.
It can keep up a bit better, but not on an equal level against good zoning teams.
I do it because it seems to be effective. Sadly I don’t have time to sit around and set-up graces all day for un-reliable set-ups when my opponent can kill me off of 1 hit, dat 850k health.
This is coming from the guy who previously stated that having all of Strange’s supers on the table is somewhat of a deterrent against zoners.
Of course it is relevant, why are you stunned? I’d personally be wayy more scared to rushdown Dormammu then to rushdown Strange, this is due to the fact that Dormammu is just generally a better close range character. If your character has good close range abilities, your opponent may be hesitant about rushing him down.
So yes, it can at times effect your opponents decision to keep zoning, or rushdown.
Once again, why would the opponent abandon his/her zoning position if Strange is receiving chip once in a while? Strange does need to progress forward, he can’t anti-zone using Mystic Sword forever. He needs to get a hit in.
As said again, they can neutral jump backwards as well. You’re making too big a deal out of it, a lot of zoners tend to jump forwards/backwards while zoning anyways.
Not normal jump height, I’m talking about superjump height; and it completely misses. Regardless, I’m tired off talking about “what if situations” regarding Strange’s super uses. If I was Tasky, I would just rush in and kill Strange in 1 combo. Done.
Did you sign some type of equality treaty with your opponent before the match? If not, it completely depends on how the match went thus far.[/details]
I would like to simply reiterate the phrase “zoning” for everyone arguing in this thread. I would say zoning isn’t a playstyle, but is moreso a tool to compliment a playstyle. People use wave-dashing to quickly achieve the spacing they want for neutral game, so what’s the different in ryu throwing a fireball to make the opponent jump into his preferred spacing?
Characters who have been labeled the “zoning” type (ie, dormammu) simply have more of these tools than others that, instead of chasing the opponent down, they simply use the tools to force the opponent in position. So in the arguement of whether strange is a zoner or antizoner is neither. plus, he has a teleport, which by itself says he has a way around zoning (but then again, who’s to say the zoner isn’t trying to get him to teleport?).
And as for the arguement of whether this game does have keepaway or not is a very simple question. If your playing rushdown with magneto, do you **never **use the disruptor beam? It’s a fact that while in some matches you will be able to keep your opponent away throughout the match, but you WILL be taken out of your comfortzone at some point. I have used arthur before, and theirs nothing wrong with air S into combo into hyper before returning to your central keepaway strategy. Thus, this game is simply another fighting game where you choose a primary strategy (keepaway, rushdown, “zoning”) and implement escape tactics during unfavorable conditions.
One of my main keepaway teams was centralized on point hawkeye with nova pulse assist. as long as the pulse was in front of me, my opponents jump-ins were in vain. At fullscreen i would H xx special (i tried to always keep a arrow bomb planted, and used a lot of AA arrows). As long as the pulse was their, the guardstun would allow me to setup mixups, or attempt an airthrow before the opponent lands in the guardstun (they never expect it, and if they attack on the way down from a jump, the pulse saves you). The bomb arrows, if kept up with, would keep the opponent guessing and also tends to provide some free ground throws. Naturally, hawkeyes ground control is excellent, so if they wise up and attempt to wave dash in, piercing bolt and triple arrow provides much chip, and piercing bolt hitting an air opponent pushes back very strongly. my final act of desperation in the corner is gimlet into taskmaster arrows, and he can play the same keepaway game, as well as strong rushdown with hawkeye arrow assist. Not many people like lvl3 x-factor nova, but i generally save him for that, but this team (hawkeye, task, nova) can work in any order.
If his zoning cannot get through to Strange, he’ll have no choice but to rush down. At fullscreen, Strange can easily call assists that a zoner cannot punish; the reverse is not true.
If, by “pressure,” you mean rush in, then you are already conceding my point. A “good” zoner has no need or desire whatsoever to rush in against an opponent that they are already controlling with their keepaway.
- What is a “neutral jump backwards”? Neutral jump is straight up, neither forward nor backwards.
- If a fullscreen zoner calls an assist while jumping any direction but forward (i.e. neutral or back), and performs any action but blocking, he will get happy birthdayed by SoV.
Yes, you can allow yourself to be put into positions where you cannot respond to a trap. The same can be said of Dorm, who we both agree is a good anti-zoner.
If they don’t respect teleport/SoV, then it’s solely because you haven’t given them a reason to.
This is one of the most basic and fundamental parts of this game. Every zoner respects teleports, because if you don’t, you get quickly stomped.
No, the reality of the situation is that I am a hardcore zoner who makes it my mission to destroy other zoning teams. And as a zoner, a competent Strange does more to change my gameplan than almost any other character. Plenty of characters have teleports, and I respect those, but Strange has many other tools in his bag. What you apparently fail to realize is that with nothing but his teleport, he would be one of the better anti-zoners in the game (just like any other teleporter); the fact that he is one of two characters in the game with a tracking air teleport that can immediately appear behind a grounded opponent is significant.
Now, combine that threat (which by itself would make ANY CHARACTER a good anti-zoner) with a super that can happy birthday from anywhere on the playfield, and a super that protects him from random attempts to projectile super him (and/or his assist). When you add a projectile with enough durability to cut through unfocused zoning, Strange is a significant anti-zoning threat.
What does any of this have to do with whether Strange is a bad anti-zoning character? I said from the start that Strange is good at making your opponent cease zoning, and this only reinforces my claim: why bash your head against a wall trying to zone him, when rushing him is much more viable?
Again with the “neutral jump backwards.” In any case, yes, zoners tend to jump forward, and backward, and stay on the ground, all while calling assists. And Strange takes away all of those options save one.
If you’re doing it at super jump height, then you aren’t jumping around “while calling assists.”
…but you damn sure wouldn’t be zoning him, because it’s way too difficult and risky. Which is my entire point.
Do you really think that it’s useful to discuss situations in which you have meter and your opponent doesn’t? Lots of characters can “win” matchups when given that advantage. That’s why I presume meter parity in my scenarios.
Hey guys, I know this is mainly a thread for people who play keepaway, but I need some advice for fighting zoners or keepaway teams. I run Spidey, Iron Fist, and Doom and aside from some lucky footdives or happy birthdays, I get blown up from zoning. More than I realized. So what would be my best option for a keep away team? would super jumping and staying in the air for as long as possible be a good idea?
What kind of zoners are you facing? Everyone’s different.
Well actually I had a lot of trouble facing Spider-Dan (ggs btw) and he used Hawkeye Taskmaster and Arthur. So it was mostly arrows covering the ground and normal jump height with some anti-air arrows coming from Hawkeye or Task (whoever was on point).
As someone who plays keep-away, I can say Spidey is one of my least favorite characters to fight. If you are fighting someone who uses keep-away, exploit Spider-Man’s mobility in order to get in. He has a tiny hitbox and can move all over the screen. I don’t know what Doom assist you are using, but your best bet is to use the hell out of it. Whatever you do DON’T rely on Iron Fist for anything here. Iron Fist struggles badly against keep-away, with maybe only Haggar losing harder to keep-away to him. When Spidey does get in, don’t stay still. If you aren’t constantly annoying the crap out of them with mix-ups and pressure, you risk letting them get their game going again. You can stay in the air for a while, but stay in the air ready to drop down in their faces. Good luck.
Thank you so much for the tips man they really helped a lot. I realized that i wasn’t calling hidden missiles enough and that helped me get in or just buy me time to think about the situation. I was really happy with how I played even though I didn’t win most of the matches. GG’s again Spider-Dan
just a small question,
who is better at keepaway, Deadpool or Hawkeye?
Hawkeye, by leaps and bounds. He does more chip, his projectiles are faster, he has fullscreen combos, and a hyper designed to punish everything at fullscreen. I would say Deadpool is an overall better character because he can play rushdown whenever he wants and I think he does more combo damage when he lands a hit from one of his many high/low mixups, though.
I’ve fought Spiderdan a bit online, I don’t exactly like having to fight my way through a wall of shit ALL THE TIME but I LIKE fighting him because it’s a challenge and I just love playing. Fighting keepaway/zoning teams can be refreshing after so many derpswordrushdown teams too.
And he usually rapes me. He plays smarter than I do.
hey guys I was narrowing down my list of characters I want to learn and it came down to Taskmaster, Deadpool or Hawkeye.
Since Deadpool is a troll and has a teleport, he got in. So I only have one more spot left. I am not sure if I should put in Task or Hawkeye.
I know Task has options for keepaway and rushdown, and ive heard Hawk is mainly a keep away character. Is this true?
Also any other points on their differences? and is Task a decent keep away?