Yeah it really retarded too ask a question like that when SFA2 do have CC.
huh, “do have”. the question is how would the tier list look like if cc’s didnt exsist. its a hypothetical question.
most charters are top tier solely because of the variaton and the amount of damaged caused by their cc’s, thats why i asked.
And it’s a stupid question. Isn’t that like saying if TS didn’t have parries, or if MvC 2 didn’t have assists, or if CvS 2 didn’t have RC?
Blah blah blah, never gonna happen, so why does it matter? Is someone gonna enforce a no-CC rule in a SFA 2 tournament anytime soon? Didn’t think so! :rolleyes:
Anyways, that STILL wouldn’t change stuff, because Chun Li still has standing LK and low MK -> Kikoken, Ken would still have kick AC and roll traps, Rose would still have GODLY low MP, etc.
pretty much it.
all the top tier characters are top tier due to non CC tools
the only real difference is that gief might look a little better cause you can’t activate to punish tick setups. You’ll have to jump to escape them instead.
I’ll tell you one thing, Rolento would go down to mid-tier. His ridiculous CC is one of the things that make his high tier. All his supers (except level 3 trip wire) suck.
you people really are fucking stupid. i didnt say takeaway cc’s.
in the previous a2 thread i remember having a discussion with chocobo with regards to where to place birdie on the tier list. i said birdie was top tier, he said birdie was shit because he had weak cc’s. i said having weak cc’s wouldnt make a difference, he thought otherwise, and from what i’ve heard about chocobo i’m pretty damn sure he knows more about a2 than pretty much anyone else on srk… thats why i asked if the tier list would change without cc’s.
and no its not like saying if 3s didn’t have parries because there are no parrying advantages between characters that i’m aware of.
I think Bison and Ryu should be up a tier in that tier list, Zangief and Adon down 1, but otherwise agree with it.
guess ill just stick to chun then…
What kind of dumb shit is this?
First you say “I didn’t say takeaway CCs” and then later on you say “What would happen if you take away CCs?”. :wtf: Make up your own goddamn mind.
While we’re at it, let’s just nix V-ISM from SFA 3 and see what we can come up with just X-ISM and A-ISM. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :yawn:
And no, no CCs do NOT make Birdie a better character. As a matter of fact, it would just make him more of a goddamn paperweight. Zero decent pokes + zero decent air attacks = one damn sucky character.
uh, no CC’s making Gief better? it would hurt him way more than it would help. His CC does such tremendous damage and leaves him right next to the opponent, which sets up an opportunity for a free tick/crossup (unless they recovery roll, in which case you can just knock them back down with a sweep). Hell, his CC can lead into a pseudo-100% combo (although it does involve two ticks afterwards so they technically have two chances to escape it). And of course his CC starts with like the longest ranged sweep in the game, which is really bad since it can hit you when you don’t even realize you’re still in range.
Plus Gief’s supers are pretty much garbage anyway, without CC’s all his super meter would be used on AC’s, and the occasional FAB when he gets a chance.
no, i didnt say takeaway cc’s from a2 like you assumed when you said:
i said how would the tier list look like if cc’s didnt exsist. there’s a fucking difference. you’re an idiot.
But see. chun also loses her CC, and Ken his and Ryu his. I don’t think gief is tops cause of his CC. Sure it helps his game, but it’s more of just a giant bonus that he doesn’t really need. Gief is tops cause of the priority on his knees and body splash, his low fierce, his low roundhouse, his annoying kick AC, and the fact that ticks still work.
Well I agree on Chun, although she still has priority up the ass on everything even without the CC. Ken would still be solid too, his supers have their uses and I don’t need to mention the kick AC. Ryu’s CC’s don’t quite deliver the same raw damage than Chun and Ken’s do, especially at level 1… it’s still good, but not THAT good. I don’t think it would be a tremendous loss. It’d be a bigger problem for Evil Ryu since infinite blowout is so nasty…
It’s not a giant bonus, it’s an incredibly important CC. Gief would still be “good” without it, but I’m convinced he wouldn’t be quite as high. Yeah, he’s still got good normals, ticks, AC’s… but the ticks in particular aren’t quite as deadly if you can’t get in on the opponent in the first place. This is why his CC is so deadly - he can df+Roundhouse you from way the hell away, go into the usual glowing gloves, finish with a lariat, and then he’s standing right over them as they fall to the ground. It sets up a tick as they get up, or a crossup, or just a regular “magic” grab to get them the instant they stand up. His lariat defensive juggle CC is great too since it also leaves you close. Sure he’s already got great anti-air capabilities with the regular lariats, but those knock the opponent away. You don’t want to knock opponents away with Gief. Also, there’s one instance in particular that activating in the air is extremely useful for him - against Chun. We all know it’s a bitch for Gief to get in on Chun, and it doesn’t help matters that her low Roundhouse beats the knees or body splash from a distance every time. Being able to air activate and blow through it is necessary for him in that fight.
Having that CC just adds to the fear of playing against Gief. I mean, you don’t want to get SPD’ed, but you also don’t want to get CC’ed. A Zangief with several options to take you down is much scarier than one that’s just nonstop rushing forward into SPD.
I guess this is a silly argument though since it’s over something that would never happen (taking out CC’s)
I’ve been playing around with Rose recently and I have a question regarding her Soul Illusion unblockable:
Can you c. RH, then Soul Illusion for the unblockable? GGPO is down, so I can’t really test it ATM. I’ve been playing against the CPU and some characters can block it, except for Zangief, who always gets hit.
bottom line, love it or hate it, cc’s balance the game more IMO. gives the more struggling characters more of a chance to win…cough…sim…cough…dan…
just a couple of examples
if you guys played this game when it was actually out you most of you wouldve hated it. not even joking. heres the scenario. you get knocked down, opponent jumps at you with a meaty jump-in. now heres his options, either a) throw you, b) delay then tick hit you, c) activate… triple threat as usual. heres your options while on defense a) block and eat throw, b) try to reverse a throw and lost over 50% to a CC…
on defense you are at a true 50/50 that is way overpowered. now you can go and flame and talk shit and do whatever you like, but im telling you, this is how it went down in like 96 or whenever this shit was out. game was a good game, not taking that away, but if you played vs top players you would hate it.
heres one more scenario for you, ken vs any fireballers. ken just walks up and does duck forward all game, slowing ticking at you. ken never a/c’s anything but a projectile to avoid getting a/c countered. very very boring yet highly highly effective, aka we call this the “THAO” since he mastered this.
and heres my last scenario for you. rose. i personally created the duck strong homo strat that has brought mrsirlin to greatness in this game. duck strong x489523143897 then a/c if you ever block a move that isnt already countered by this high priority move. her punch a/c cant be countered by much. ie. duck rh then super with ken, rose will get the a/c off the rh and even if super comes out, rose still gets the grab. dont believe me?? try it.
like i say though, game is pretty solid and fun, just when you get to the top flight play, game sucks due to 50/50 overpowered customs. anyways, have fun.
True, I love this game and I hate customs combos. When one is new and is playing people from one own level that does not know how to use CC is great cause one can do all the basic things. Once one start facing people who knows hows to uses CC is get a lither frustrating. CC break some of the basic gameplay and combined with blowout and vallecc it get mad.
Still like I said this still one or my favorite game.
Edit:Watson is just straight up smash talk in your face Stone Cold style. Lol.
I agree with Watson’s summary of the game, I find myself playing with more of a zoning style versus good players.
I think a lot of the frustration with CC’s comes from the “random” blowouts that occur from a good guess - which eventually leads to an easy 50%+. I find myself turtling more if I can’t get off a good anti-air option, and ac’ing to get out of the corner - anything to keep them away from that blowout range. A lot of newer players that learned SF on CvS2 have told me that they hate that style, but playing good defense is the only way I can keep the random CC from turning the tide of the game.
That being said, love the game - has a good balance between old and new school, a little something for everybody. Great choice for the first game available on GGPO.
yeah, also gonna have to agree with watson. when you take this game really seriously it can be really dumb at times.
ok guys i just recenlty picked this game again to play, and i want to ask something am playing the japanese alpha collection and in alpha 2 i have a really hard time pulling off DP consistently on the 1P side but not on the 2P side why is that:sad:
in alpha 3 i have no problems at all:sad:
is there input differences or alpha 2 has strict differences with inputs, that need to be exact???
am using a sanwa stick and i have no problems at all doing anything in other games
just this game pisses me off when am getting pwned and i need to do DP and does not come out all the time on 1P side:sad: