Because playing VF is like reading a text book. It’s complex, but that doesn’t make it good. Most fighting games have something that distinguishes them from the pack, be it a cool character roster (most SF games, MvC, etc), interesting gameplay mechanics (KoF), gimmicks (MK), etc. but VF doesn’t really have ANY of those things. It’s just a run of the mill fighting game with cliche characters that just happens to be super complex. Tekken’s complex, but there’s a bit more interest because some of the characters are so outlandish, and somehow, it doesn’t feel like work learning how to play.
Random stupidity is part of what makes fg’s fun, the idea that if the highest tier character and the lowest tier character meet, the lower tier character COULD win even if just because of BS/stupidity. But VF doesn’t really allow for that, thus, there are few surprises.
I don’t know where to begin to start picking out all the wrongs in this statement. In VF5, the lower tier character can win because of balance. So, there are no need for stupid gimmicks or surprises. Why the hell would you want to rely on gimmicks? That’s crap that only wins once or twice. That’s why it’s called bs/gimmick.
I’m actually rather shocked at the reasons people don’t play VF5.
EDIT
Oh, so I can also watch myself get c. MK xx SA2 for 21 hits for the millionth time.
Saying the Japanese only like combo-happy games is a misnomer. Their huge arcade scene allows for many different players to find their group of players to with. People still play ST and SFIV is getting tons of play. Hell, even CvS2 gets some play. (Especially when we see teams with Sim, Maki, etc) I think when you guys say it’s boring to watch people get combo’ed, in contrast, it gets boring to watch people spam fireballs at each other and play footsies. I’m not saying this for myself, but it is the other side of the equation. I mean, seriously, I’m sure you remember the JWong CvS2 match where they simply crouched at about mid-screen length from each other for the entire round. That’s pretty riveting stuff.
but seriously, KOF2k was fun, good looking, but it pissed a lot of people off with all of the infinites.
Personally, I play that game w/o Strikers and I think it’s very fun.
I agree with what you are saying there, but c.MK xx SA2 takes all of, what, 2-3 seconds? Whereas in some of these new games, a combo can last half the length of a round. Watching myself get hit with c.MK xx SA2 might do just as much damage as some combo that takes 10-20 times as long, but at least I don’t have sit and watch generic repetitive combo for half a minute until I get to play again.
I think that’s a gross exaggeration. A lot of combos take 5 maybe 10 seconds tops. I can speak for most of the games since I have experience with all of them. Melty Blood combos are quick and last 3-5 seconds, same goes with GG. Arcana Heart Full is an offender of long-winded combos, but they tone that down in Arcana 2.
But, then we go back to SF/Capcom. What about CvS2 A-Groove? What about SFA3 V-ism? Aren’t these all offenders of the same thing? No one seemed to have a problem when these games where hot.
strictly speaking, its harder to land/hit confirm low forward than 2A. you get a whole lot more time to go “oh hey that didnt hit” with the 2A since most of those combos start with 2A 2B 2C, or 2A x2 or 3.
edit: with A-groove CCs you can see the meter building, and it does take a while to fill up. so i guess theres more you can do to stop yourself from getting hit. also getting in that first hit is still a challenge, since the other guy is going to be in his corner holding down back. not to mention if the A-groover fucks up all that meter goes to waste. so i dont really mind A-groove that much, since it feels like that shoshosho took a lot of effort. Vism combos are a little too long though.
i never said the old school style of games were better. some things in ST and CVS2 are boring as shit too. like Guile mirrors in ST. seems like a battle of sonic boom sonic boom sonic boom sonic boom sonic boom sonic boom (yes another gross overgeneralization but i have to be fair dont i). theres enough said about cvs2 and down back so im not going to repeat that. ill agree that footsies can get tiring, but it seems like game developers these days think flashy = quality game. and while flash helps in getting people to play a game, my point is that flashy isnt going to help if the gameplay itself is fundamentally flawed.
edit again: example of a a game with lot of long boring combos (which start from pretty much anything, including low jab!) would be that new fate game. GG has a lot of different, situational combos which take some effort to land, and low jab doesnt do shit so it doesnt really fall in this category. i agree that MB’s combos arent that long or boring to watch, but everything chaining into everything which chains into low jab makes those combos happen too often so it gets repetitive. so i guess in this aspect GG > MB > AH1 (i dont know about 2).
Fair enough, but, here’s the catch. Neither Arcana, Melty or Guilty Gear have flawed gameplays. Yes, they are combo-heavy, but they each have good sub-systems in place. Some characters have longer combos then others (I’m looking at you Sion :shake:) but when you really get down to it, they go by faster than you think.
…and when you say it’s harder to hit confirm c.MK over 2A, I’d say that’s wrong. You still have to do the combo after 2A and that in itself is harder than hitconfirming a super when you know c. MK has a huge window.
Chibita won SBO VF5 last year in the finals using Lion, who was the dead last bottom tier character in that game, and has no ‘gimmicks’ to abuse. Also note that the final match was vs another strong Lion player, Suguru. You ain’t never gonna see a Twelve vs Twelve final for 3s in SBO as long as you live.
VF has all that other shit too, and saying you need a textbook to win in VF5 is a gross overstatement. By that line of thinking, you need a book to win in Tekken too (you don’t).
Thing is, in previous VFs, how often did you see 10-hit combos in a real match? 5R has nastier stuff that looks more appealing.
And I played VF4 Evo back in the day, made top 20 at Evo in 04 i think. What I’m trying to say is there isn’t any particular tactic in VF that instantly makes you feel godlike for learning it, ala the big loop combos in modern fighters, and there isn’t much in general that looks cool. That’s a big turnoff to people who start learning.
Another problem I find is that to the uninitiated, so much of the VF cast appears to play the same - poke, poke, jab, throw, jab, launcher, and so on. And at lower levels, you don’t feel like you’re doing anything interesting - you feel like you’re just jabbing and poking and throwing.
See, people are content just to say “it’s too hard to learn”…but if that was the only explanation, why did Guilty Gear become so big? I’m suggesting it’s because it has that subjective “fun factor” at all levels of play, which other hard games like VF and CvS2 don’t. It doesn’t necessarily mean that those games are worse, just that they’re less likely to build big numbers.
i dont think guilty gear is fundamentally flawed. i think the game is done very well, i just mentioned it because people tend to lump it with all the other animoo fighters. ill give you melty blood because its fun, and the ‘lol’ stuff tends to cancel itself out. Arcana heart…we’ll have to agree to disagree.
i can do the combos after 2A in MB and AH (well the basic ones anyways), but i cant hitconfirm in 3s to save my life. i guess people have trouble with different aspects of execution. either way i still think the time for 2A 2B 2C is much longer than the window for cancelling low forward.
you still dont see 10 hit combos in vf5r, all the loops that dealt big dmg in vf5 are removed in R(Jeffrey chocolate rain combo) but people are finding new ones that deal pretty much the same amount
You know what that right there sounds like, any fighting game being played at a low level. People dont know what to do and resort to basics poke/throw/zone
Thats 1st sentence irreleveant, its like bragging about getting top 3 in a 4 man tourney. The 2nd & 3rd sentence seems more like a complaint there isnt a big loop combo that isnt situational to easily dispatch opponents (big combo =/= skillz). Is vf hard to learn no and yes, all the information is put out there with tons of videos, is there a huge community with whom you can apply this knowledge and develop from (outside of xbl) no there is not(but xbl is better than nothing, and its not that bad). GG got big because of its anime design, the good gameplay is secondary the majority of players that GG GGX and GGXX drew in was because of its anime design
Except that 2A, 2B, 2C isn’t necessarily a useful string in itself, and not necessarily safe either since it gets owned by bara cancels. It’s not something you want to be using to hit confirm your combos, at least in high level play where players know how to bara.
:shake:, if this was true other games based on an anime would be a major hit, its true that the community has some people who like the game because the char desings, but in the end its about the deep in mechanics and gameplay that makes the game outstand over others, if you generalize that the people who play the game is because the anime style you are in a big mistake