Thanks. :woot:
you have a point, it seems that every one loves a considered amount of bs in the games that they play, we only need to see the games on sbo and evo. for vf5 being boring, its a matter of opinions some people like it and other not.
the snk problem imo its because all the people are to obsessed with sf and other capcom games, it seems that usa is another world when it comes about games, it doesnt matter if the game is better, if its not from capcom its hard for the game to make it up
On another note as far as i see it seems that the arcsys games are the most balanced when it comes about tiers, with sbx maybe as an exception, not everyone was capabl to do the space race infinite or the wallstreet infinite 
I didn’t really mean all ASW games in general, just GG. Because ASW doesn’t have really have a stellar record of having balanced games other than GG.
word!
the thing that bothers me is that they took the same characters and altered their majority of hitboxes and priorities for no reason at all making it feel/look unnatural (not only compared to SFA2, but compared with common sense).
also the counter system was really overdone.
X-ISM is a joke… it was supposed to be classic, but it’s just a gimped mode of play.
they could’ve balance it out by making it REALLY classic:
- 1 button throws (no wiff animations)
- no guard meter (doh! since you don’t have Alpha counters how can you defend against V-ISM corner spam?)
- build meter quickly like in ST
there you have it: X-ISM made viable. is it really too hard to think of these things? or should Capcom hire me for a Remix? :rolleyes:
i know that you werent talking about the arcsys games in general, but if you see, its very common to find opinions about the games being balanced enough, and if we talk about records capcom and snk are worst when it comes about balancing their games, remember that hnk doesnt have a revision and for the record hnk belongs to sega, all the decisions made around the game are took by them, i heard that arcsys had some plans on how they could fix the glitches but that never hapened because sega didnt want to give it a try, bf were tuned for the console release, sf2 needed a lot of revisions to went to something that resembles as a balance and 3s have serious problems like mvc2
Lol, dude. I wasn’t trying to make you look like an ass. My first post was in jest. My second post was a genuine admittance of embarrassment and admiration. I thought you would have realized that if you checked your CP, I guess you didn’t.
Street Fighter players were much quicker to make use of the internet (i.e. Cannons, s-kill, other old-schoolers) than SNK people, and a lot of the SNK people who were around in the early days were more “fan” than “player”. Another factor was the ridiculous cost of playing Neo games at home, which ruined their chances as arcades died and no quality ports were available. And the majority of SNK’s fighters really were terrible, especially in the early days, so that was the impression left in a lot of people’s minds.
So I think that more or less explains why the good stuff on the Neo (Garou, RB2, World Heroes Perfect, Samsho games, etc) never really caught on.
As for their newer games, NGBC was even more tier-broken than 3rd Strike. Neowave and XI had similar issues. What I want to know is what the hell happened to Tenka in Japan - I recall that when fubarduck lived there during SBO qualifiers, he was saying that it was one of the hottest fighters in the country, and then all of a sudden it just seemed to die. I’m thinking its slow pace and lack of big combos were a big problem.
Which brings me to something else…
Rob, that was an interesting post on Battle Fantasia, but I just wanted to say something. Originally, that game was intended to be the modern equivalent to Super Turbo, with footsies and short combos, but Arc wouldn’t let them do it; throughout development they kept saying “add in bigger combos”, “make it more like Guilty Gear”, and “don’t mess with the formula”. That’s why the game turned out as strange as it did - a lot of this stuff was obviously tacked on.
It just disappoints me that Japanese audiences seem not to want anything except Guilty Gear derivatives, as this affects game development. That’s why I’ve been hoping SF4 will succeed, but anyway…
Tekken 4 survived longer than it had any right to. Shit was just straight up Jin festival at high level.
SC3 had major top-tier dominance, even without VC. X and the sisters were boring straightforward characters, too. Let me put it to you this way - Yunsung was actually very good in 3, had a 15-frame safe launcher into 25% combo, yet nobody ever used him because he was merely “very good” in a very broken game. And he never got any “character love” from high-level players like Maxi or Talim or Zasalamel did.
Virtua Fighter never caught on in the US because it’s perhaps the most difficult fighting game to learn and, unlike GG, it’s not visually exciting. Additionally, there aren’t many cool/fun tactics to pull off, although VF5R seems to have changed this a bit with the wall combos.
RB2 has infinite/100% combo issues using feint cancels, though the combos are much more diffficult then LB2. Also the game seems like it can get really boring at high levels from what I saw on 2df-jumping is more dangerous then ST even. RB1 and RBSP have their own major issues as well.
Game would be fun if infinites were banned like LB2 (Waits for Josh to refute that, we won’t agree)
I’m a fan of the game, and I wouldn’t call it tourney worthy. It’s a good solid casual game, but it’s not meant to be played ULTRA-competitively.
As for the GG- Japan is now pumping out GG clones at the same rate SF2 clones were pumped out back in the day, and at the same level of quality. The backlash has to happen the same way it happened with SF2.
As for why unbalanced games do well in America (3s, MvC2)- popularity of games in America has little to do with balance.
The Capcom name also meant a whole lot (though less so now- SF4 may change that somewhat depending on how well it does and whether the 3s players reject it or not)
you are right sir, a lot of the problems begined with the desicions that the directives took around the developement of the game, but you cant blame them either, sf is fun but it feels too old and limited, sf4 will be a succed at least in usa thats a given, but the times are changing, the sf gameplay was more about hardware limitations, it turned well as a fighting game, but in this times that you can done more, this type of gameplay doesnt appeal to the newcommers, we only need to see the average age of the people who play this kind of games, and that only sf is sticked with that formula (and barely with all the new addons), is really hard to find games that play in an old school way this days. Maybe because that arcsys was affraid to make bf in that way, because it seems that only sf sells well when it comes of this kind of games.
i cant say that the games out in the market this days are gg clones, all that they have in common is that they are combo oriented, and in a little less way some have cancels (and now even sf4 has a cancel system), i feel that is only the natural process of evolution of the gameplay in the fighting games, mvc2 is a combo fg and no one is calling it a gg clone… duh, this tendency begined a lot of time before gg appeared, we only need to see the vs series, rival school, ds and many other games from other companies, even mk3 and ki had a combo system with the diference that now you can do combos in the ground and in the air with more liberty
Wich is weird cause they seem to hate on Marvel vs. games. LOL
Hey I always wondered what was wrong with the EX series? They seem like alright games.
you said it they seem like alright games until you play them and you realize that they arent good enough
vf5 had wall combos, btw if you think vf doesnt have cool fun tactics you are probably part of the group that took a look at the move list and turned off the game
But I did play them. While they may be a little ugly and floaty, there doesn’t seem to be any bullshit and the little extra systems are interesting enough.
i belive that its a matter of tastes, i dont really care about graphics, but the ex series just felt awful to me, i played the game for like 9 months back in the day with my friends but we always preferd to play the alpha series instead or rival school, still i have my copies of the games
lol, just what i thought
I really didn’t understand what you said regarding Alpha 3 here.
Upper wasnt infinite fest as A3 = ppl trash it??!
Okay, dude. I’m a foreigner too, it’s not too hard to write English, the proper way. If you are questioning what happened, people bitched about Upper being different. It was really how things happened then. Some folks just had too much weight on their voices. I remember some folks talking about how weak Guile was, saying he should be strong if not as strong as Charlie. Okay… although that’s a lame reason - that was one character out of numbers. Then people talked about rebalanced V-ism. If you ask anyone sane, V-Isms are one of the biggest things wrong with alpha 3. Still, back then people loved Alpha 3 and they didn’t want to look through good reasons. Even weak reasoning was good enough excuse to not to adapt.
I liked eternal champions. Why dont we still play that game? I loved that specials required use of a bar.
I also like fighting vipers. Why was this game deemd to weak to continue its life?
is slayer from ggxx series
edit
what game is fighting vipers?
Basically you understood what I meant. It was like first ppl called stuff at A3 due to infs/char balance, etc, then comes capcom and balance/nerfes the thing and ppl hate the game from other point of view. What I wanted to pint is that never anyone will be sattisfied with games but thats all. You are saying the same as me but with better english! :woot:
I like VF a lot, but I have to agree…to an extent. The game is much more fun to actually play than it is to watch. However, since most US players go only by brief first impressions and hype, that means VF won’t get a fair shake.
Why doesn’t it? Our scene is only really playing about 4-5 Capcom fighters right now. Doesn’t that balance out the dozens of OTHER Capcom games that never made it?
So essentially you point out the Capcom/SNK double standard and then proceed to follow up on it yourself…
I hear that a lot when people talk about Garou. My conclusion is that people just don’t care about it enough to really dedicate themselves to it, considering it’s nearly 10 years old and there are plenty of other 10-year old games we’re still playing at the moment.
At Final Round this year, I had a lot of people ask me if there was a Garou tourney ALL WEEKEND and yet the only ones that even bothered to officially sign up was me, Justin Wong, and like 2 other people I can’t remember. Lots of people wanted to play, but nobody wanted to sign up until someone else did. I guess that says it all right there, doesn’t it?
Right…and even then like over half of the GG games are broken and non-playable.
There’s plenty of reasons why people aren’t playing GG1, Isuka, or Dust Strikers.
I guess you’re only allowed to make a bunch of crappy, broken games when you create Accent Core, right? :rolleyes:
Because Sega doesn’t give a SHIT anymore. I’ve no doubt that VF would’ve been killed too after VF3 semi-bombed if Yu Suzuki wasn’t such a mark for the series.
If they still cared, they’d make Fighters Megamix 2 and it would be the best 3-D fighter EVER with more characters from other series like Sonic, Phantasy Star, Shining Force, Street of Rage, Jet Set Radio, etc. and it would be like Smash but a real fighting game.
Instead they just want to keep raping our cherished memories of Sonic, PS, and SF…