with all the balance talk that is pointed, it makes me wonder one thing, why he people take the balance as a point to determinate if a game is good or not when if we see all the games that are played at tournament level are clear that have heavy problems with that, take for example mvc2 and 3s, is very well known to us that this games arent well balanced, when we see the finalists in the tournaments of this games we see almost every time the same chars over and over, and in the other hand games like vf5 that is one of the most balanced games in the market are pretty much ignored. other example is hnk that its pointed as an unbalanced and broken game but as far as we see, mamiya is the only char that its no seem in tournament level. i only want to know why the people whine about the balance so much, some one said that kof wasnt worth it as an evo game because its lacks of balance but in the other hand we see mvc2 and 3s in evo, and the funny part is that kof is very played aound the world compared to the other 2, take for example china
the chaos breaker problem could be solved with the banning of the horse guy, but still the game ended in the oblivion, my point here its that i fell that in the end its more about if the target market its prepared to accept the game even with its brokeness or not, kof and sf have a very large fanbase that are determinated to support the games with the name of the series on it, even when this are unbalanced or not, even with all the whine, they will play the game and support the scene, of course this is only a thought that i have and i wanted to share
i dont know, i never saw the anime but i found the game very appealing for its mechanics and char desings, i guess that the problem for almost every new fighting game its the unexplained hate of the usa player against the anime this days :looney:, or as deadfrog said, not too many people are interested to play a game if they dont recognize the chars on it
As for the thread topic, I guess Samurai Shodown 2. Such a fine oldschool game should be more popular, especially among the SF2 crowd, but it’s pretty hard to find online comp for it especially on GGPO.
I’ll tell you why these games didn’t catch on. If you went on a violent murder-suicide rampage after playing them, the newspaper headline wouldn’t say “Maniac slays many, self after playing violent video game.” It would say “Maniac slays many, self, about to come out of closet.”
This is debatable. IMO I would prefer to play a better balanced game. For example 3S ver.B. No Urien unblockables, Ken/Yun/Chun toned down, etc = ppl trash it. Upper wasnt infinite fest as A3 = ppl trash it, Vampyre chronicle toned everyone down = trash. Why?
The same will happen to STHD remix? Will it be taken as a new game?
That’s the answer. Capcom has always been pretty terrible at balancing games with new revisions, limiting their rebalance to “tone everyone down”, which ended up making the games boring.
HDR tones down some of the most abusable stuff, but gives new tools to the mid / low tier characters also, so I don’t think it will suffer the same fate.
Well, most fans of this game would argue that Joe/A. Iori/Seth strikers give this game bad rap, but quite honestly, any striker that OTGs works well enough in this game (which pretty much makes up 74% of the strikers in KOF 2000), and that is what kinda pissed me off. KOF 2000 became a Marvel of sorts with all the BnB combo into striker into BnB combo, repeat ad nauseum. It’s not that striker Joe was the most effective one out there, he was just more commonly known, but there are loads of strikers who can do the same thing, which isn’t exactly good to begin with.
I remember I was once playing this game when I tried to throw an opponent. He breaks the throw, calls the striker (which does the generic “kick” attack instead of their own unique attack), and then proceeds to juggle my ass into death. I was like, “Wow, all this out of a measly throw attempt”.
Lin was also pretty bad even WITHOUT strikers.
So yeah, fuck the striker system, and fuck KOF 2000. :arazz:
i don’t know about Tekken 4 but Soul Calibur 3 had some game breaking glitches in it. The game had what was known as a “Variable Cancel” glitch that allowed you to cancel any action you made visually, but still following through with the move. It was pretty exploitable after a Guard Impact especially. It’s a great game to play solo, but the tournament community hated it and was almost overjoyed when they found that it was broken because that meant they didn’t have to learn a new game. <_<
That and the save file glitches drove a lot of people nuts. Namco is really bad when it comes to Beta testing.
lol, i remember the save file glitches, it seems that every sc has on glitch that fuck your save >_< , the problem with tekken 4 was that it felt like a doa game, too easy and with out depth compared to the previous games or at least thats how much people here think about it.
sc3 was fixed on the arcade version, the bad thing is that we never saw that revision here >.>
Your post was all pretty much right other than this part. The mixing of GG style characters with 3S style actually went pretty well. Neither Watson nor Coyori (the most mobile of characters and the ones most like GG characters) were top tier, Watson even got rated bottom tier in that one tier chart that came out (not that I agree with that though). The top tier was pretty much one of each… Cedric basically a version of Guile with a little too much frame advantage and damage, and Ashley being Ashley. Most of the cast is much more 3S like than they are GG like and they all do fine. Even Olivia, whom is pretty easily the worst character in the game, is still capable in the hands of someone who really knows her well.
The balance is overall pretty good, especially considering it was a first iteration ArcSys game. Bottom tier is still usable and the top tier is beatable once you know the game well enough.
Anyway, the real biggest problem gameplay wise was all the crap like no command throw invincibility on wakeup and the infinites, both of which were really awful, especially since that would have been an easy thing to patch and fix. Fortunately the console version of the game has cleaned all of that crap out.
Juggling system was fun for a while, but then when the efficiency of some combos started feeling random (whether or not P2 recovered in those few frames) you started missing the SFA2 rules
Projectiles did like one pixel damage when zoning
ISMs were interesting, but after a while made you miss the times when all you needed to do to play a fighting game was pick a character, not a groove or super or whatever
Nice soundtrack, but felt like a step down from SFA2
Ryu gets a new super move, but it’s not practical at all
I still like it a lot, but ideally IMO they could’ve perfected the SFA2 system instead of experimenting so much.
VF5 may be balanced…but it’s boring. Strictly my opinion and nothing else. Take it w/e way you want it.
3s hot garbage…and honestly I still don’t know the reason people play it. Maybe it’s b/c of the delusion people have that they think “parrying makes it so other characters can win”. Maybe so but when all that character has got is parrying…that’s a problem and let’s not forget, they can do the same thing to you…and potentially kill you for it. The thing a lot of people don’t realize about 3s is that a lot of the top players will outright tell you that it’s not a good game.
SNK. The problem with SNK especially here in the US is that everybody’s already got it in their heads that SNK=Shitty broke games. I’m well aware that some of their games are in fact very good, but like 4 (example, aka don’t take this number literally) good games doesn’t outweigh the other 30 shitty ones. I personally favor Garou but I can’t find anyone to play it with around here.
MvC2. Yes it’s broke, it’s broke to all hell. But it’s fun to watch and the fact that just about all the good characters were created in America and most americans would know who they are is a BIG plus to this game. Oh did I mention it’s hella fun to watch.
The only game that’s balanced in both gameplay and character selection is GG. Yes GG has BS but the great thing about GG BS is that EVERYBODY has it. Absolutely everybody in that game has their own form of bullshit that will piss you off at that character. Like Eddie vs. Bridget…Eddie has the shadow which is gay…Bridget has a yoyo that doesn’t seem all that good…Eddie doesn’t have shadow out…Bridget turns on the hyper gay yoyo glitch and Eddie dies a horrible death b/c he’s not going to get the shadow again…
HNK…broke, so broke that it balanced itself out in it’s own way. The reason I think people in Japan still play this game is simply because it’s Hokuto No Fucking Ken!!!(Heartnana, feel free to correct me, I’m just speculating here)
In conclusion…A perfectly balanced game is boring. Bullshit makes the game more interesting because everybody will be finding a way to get around it. Now when there is no way around it and playing smart and safe doesn’t change the matter any, then there’s reason to start doing shit.
Just to clarify, this is ALL my OPINION. So take it anyway you want.