Your new example there makes sense, but the whole thing about the vortex is to keep your opponent guessing, there will be ways out for every situation, I can’t test for immaculate auto-correct timing in every option. It’s not safe for either of you, if he thinks you’ll do double-dash x-up tatsu and you just do a LK demonflip palm and land with quite a distance between you, his srk comes out late, completely whiffs, and you get a free punish. This is why a player in a highly disadvantageous situation will choose to block.
You can’t perfectly space every x-up tatsu, but then again you don’t have to do ones from improper spacing. You also can’t auto-correct non-reversal wake-up shoryuken every time and get away with it.
But there really isn’t much of a mix up between demon flip palm and cross tatsu. Most people can tell the difference between a normal jump and a demon flip jump.
It’s surprising that this auto correct shoryu is full proof. So many players(ryu included) are losing to the vortex and Daigo now even believes Akuma has the advantage.
I realize this is a bit outside the scope of this thread, but is there a basic set of criteria for when to attempt this stuff outside the context of scoring an untechable knockdown? I’ve seen good players do this to great effect… but whenever I do it I either get blocked or trade… (usually I don’t get smacked outright anymore… I guess thats an improvement :P). All I’ve got so far is “try it when you can predict a fireball”.
It seems like there should be more to it than that :P.
— edit —
As an aside, it seems like instead of forward throw -> dash -> dash -> MK demon flip, you can do forward throw -> standing HK -> ?? demon flip… Tokido appears to do this here [media=youtube]np7ostyAues#t=1m36s[/media]
Sick vid, im still tryna master that exploding heart into Demon flip technique but I keep gettin stuffed.
Should I be using MK dive Kick or HK dive kick.
I also wondred-I’ll test when i finish class-whether you may fwd throw into single dash, hk.dflip to stuff reversals. just guessing if itd work and offer some extra leniency in the tight timeframe.
Cool stuff, man. Also, MK demonflip is generally what stuffs the reversals, hk whiffs behind. If anyone wants to confirm Bison scissors for me (just for a second opinion) I’ll throw it in. May do it myself later.
Oh, after a palm strike, what are your options? How about after a Demon Flip throw?
Also, I understand the logic behind doing a sweep after an LK Tatsu (against the characters that you can do that against), but how about doing an HP SRK and FADCing out of the last hit (and not throwing a Shaku, since LP SRK is better for that)? That way you recover long before the enemy and could in theory continue the vortex having done more damage initially…
?? Yeah, its a “waste” of two bars, but its no more wasteful than doing a reset and praying you can continue the vortex (well, maybe a LITTLE more :P), and its not THAT much worse than using the two bars to add a shaku onto an lp SRK for a bit more damage… is it?
so during my lunch break, i tested following a forward throw with hk into df.mk (as opposed doing 2 dashes then df.mk) against ken’s hp.srk, and it works. wasnt able to do this against ryus hp.srk, although I didnt try long. timing is very strict (like the 2 dashes approach), but I stuffed kens reversal wakeup hp.srks every time.
tentatively speaking, looks like it works the same way as the 2 dashes into df.mk (potentially working against all kens and sagats srks, and against ryus lp and mp srks); but again, i only really tested against kens hp.srk (which works), so i cant vouch for it working the same way as 2 dashes against the other characters and various strengths of srks. i may do this later this evening and will update if someone else doesnt get to it first.
hmmm. is there any we can consolidate this info… like in a text format so thats its a little easier to understand???
ie:
sweep (far)
hk demon> wiff palm> cr.lk
mk demon divekick
crossup tatsu
jumpin hk.
etc.
the reason is that it would be cool to know what charatcers what options work best against… like i dont know what options are best against blanka versus abel versus ryu…
i’d be more than happy to start a list but the prob is that i’mseriously just a beginning akuma… so if i did do a list i’d need help from folks that actually know what they are talking about for corrections…
also i dont know how many akumas use this but after akuma hits with a sweep he can hit with a TRUE safejump against the llikes of sagat and chun for starters (he’ll hit them but there reversals will wiff)… its just sweep then forward jump> down + mk, its pretty easy to time and the timing can be switched up… empty jumping also screws with the timing as well plus its uber safe cause generally it will hit them very deep like in there knees… at worst at there belt line (but belt line isnt a safejump…)
hey if you want any help with the legwork like specific setups to test and what not… whatever… give me a holler… lol i need this info like YESTERDAY haha !
out
It’s not just demon palm for mix up, safe jump in, fake cross up, etc. Like Lord of Ultima said the point of the vortex is to keep the opponent guessing.
Did Daigo REALLY say that he thinks Akuma has the advantage against Ryu? I really think that Ryu has the advantage in that match up.
^ Akuma can’t feasibly have a clear advantage over Ryu because Ryu has an advantage in the ground game (as the general place of the match). 6/4 is like Akuma vs Zangief or Zangief vs Ken.
That’s absolutely what I’d think the format should look like. Incidently, the Akuma secrets thread has some info from me in a little more detail for the effectivenes of the so-called 'esplodin heart technique.
If you were nice you would paste that shit in your post. As for that sort of layout, I think it’s redundant to list things in that format. far sweep can go into about 40 things, this would make the post even more massive. Seems easier to just piece together your own vortex through three steps to me.