ah, ok cool, I’ll experiment with this a bit in training mode.
tatsu whiff and backdash?
I noticed that some players already expects the cross-up tatsu but what I don’t understand is what do they do for my cross-up tatsu to whiff and I get grabbed? Do they just crouch? And what do you guys do with players who back-dash on wake-up? Very hard for me to walk up to them to throw or demon flip even whiffs sometimes. I tried a kara demon (ultra) once but he jumped instead of backdash. I wonder if that would work (if the player backdashed).
Thanks
Awesome set of videos and info. Just thought I’d add my 2 cents in here… I’ve started playing around with this and I find that after 2, maybe 3 mixups max my brain gets “lost” and I lose momentum. Is this just a case of “needs more practice!” in order to train my brain to be 2-3 steps ahead of what I’m doing? I also seem to suffer from the trading or beat clean by DPs that others were mentioning. When I try in training it works like a charm and I can stuff DPs all over, but in a real fight I get traded probably 60% of the time. (this is based online which I know isn’t the best option) it hurts to get traded then ultra’d 
I’m gonna practice safe jumping and see if I can’t get better at baiting those DPs out then punish city. I also have issues connecting the red fireball after fadcing, seems to come out really late.
I suspect all this can be answered with “practice moar!”. heh
You’re timing the x-up tatsu wrong if you’re whiffing it. It can hit crouching opponents as well, the window is just smaller. For wake-up backdashers, try demonflip palm to sweep or some option select stuff.
You can’t technically safe-jump someone with a 3-frame start-up shoryuken, but empty jumps and junk sure. My recommendation is just work on 2 or 3 mix-ups until you’re very comfortable with them. while all the options are nice, there’s generally 3 or so that you default back to most of the time. If you’re thinking too much about it that could also be a problem, just do it.
Also agree on these vids, good work Loltima, you’re good people.
Concerning practice, ie the vortex, you might just need more pratice, correct. The brain can not interpret and store the amount of information and musclememory presented in these vids in short time. It takes practice, step by step. I like to refer to learning a musical instrument: you start with small parts, in slow tempo, and build your libary of chops gradually and speed up the tempo as you go. Remember Loltima has probably practiced alot, but it’s also a vid, so editing can save him. Don’t feel that you can’t go to that level just because it looks impressive. In a real match, Loltima fails too you know. It’s the same as I hear alot of musicians say, “Oh my god, this guy plays godlike, I’m giving up!”.
Also, the saying “Use it or lose it” is viable, don’t practice too hard on something you rarely use. Build around what you do know about the basics and try to expand from there. You’re probably trying to learn all the parts of the vortex in one string, with all the options it has. Don’t. Practice one part, like untechable takedowns, for hour, then stop. Your brain won’t benefit from practicing the same routines for much longer, if not even a shorter period of time. Then go to practice the 1 or 2 combos you like the most, using demonflip, again for hour. Then try for an hour to put thes two parts together, don’t try anything fancy, remember you’re practicing repetition and memory, not reaction.
Do this for all parts, practice one part at a time, then string it to one other part. Then start all over and let days/weeks go by. Soon, you’ll be able to move between all parts more seemlessly, stringing them all together at will.
But playing matches is something else, you’ll get locked down if you try to pull off things instead of reacting to the situation. Same as playing music live, it’s gonna sound terrible if you try a scalerun just because you practiced it 2 days in a row, you have to let go. That, imo, is the hardest part and is what seperates mice from men.
Great stuff. Thank you. I’ll practice having the dummy in crouch mode and see if I can hit it. I’ll also look into my timing. Thank you.
I think everyone gets confused with their own mix-ups when they’re first starting to learn it especially with Akuma with so many variations. I focused on 3-4 variations of mix-up but now, I can add couple more to the mix without confusing myself too much. Focus on x-tatsu, demon-flip kick and throw and be comfortable with it. I made a new account so I can start at Group 3 and only focused on those things, didn’t care if I win or lose. After couple of weeks the new account advanced to group 1 and though I still have a lot to learn, I think my overall game has improved dramatically.
[media=youtube]uKya28mKmoE[/media]
Watch the video at 7:13, round 2 of Akuma Vs Balrog, that’s a good example of the vortex, right? (on a side note, I probably would have put the controller down in that round if it was me lol, what an awesome comeback).
Can opponents beat X-Up tatsu if they wake up cr. jab? I’ve seen a lot of matches where Akumas get their vortex stuffed when the opponent does this. Or is it simply a mistiming?
Yeah that was a pretty dope comeback, two things interest me about that match in general though. Trade uppercut to tatsu (might be a corner thing) and demonflip throw backdash, HK Demonflip safe palm.
the reason you see people crouch jab under the x-up tatsu is just timing. Timing is real strict on x-up tatsu to hit crouching opponents, so there is a larger probability that it will whiff.
Can someone please list an opponent’s options on his wakeup after getting knocked down by Akuma and what would have been the correct mixup/mixups to damage them?
For example, after successfully gaining an untechable knockdown, what will beat these:
Opponent < Akuma
Blocking high/low < DF throw / attack in the opposite direction they’re blocking
3 Frame shoto SRK < DF throw (very strict timing) / x-up Tatsu / DF palm to block in time
TU/slower SRKs < Safe jump-in / DF Throw / x-up Tatsu / DF palm to block in time
Backdash < DF palm to sweep? / DF throw in the correct distance if you anticipate the backdash
Neutral jump attack < DF throw OS SRK? / Meaty jump-in?/ DF palm air to air?
Back jump attack < Meaty jump-in ?
Spamming throw < SRK?
…etc
Someone of course please correct me if I said anything wrong, those were just some quick examples, but I believe that it would help a lot of people if we had a list that explains how to counter as many scenarios as possible.
This might sound like I’m a bit too lazy, but I honestly try to practice stuff in training mode, read lots of stuff on these forums and watch as many tutorials as possible (like LordofUltima’s excellent videos)l but I’m still not that aware of the game’s mechanics so I usually doubt my results lol!
What do you usually do if your cross up tatsu is blocked? Some players do know to block it, but i dont know what to do after that, usually i would just poke with sweep, but are there any better options to keep pressuring them
If you can identify that they’re blocking I would do nothing, or maybe low forward fireball fadc, some shenanigans like that.
Wow I’m really glad I searched through these Vortex threads. This is the answer I’ve been looking for since I started maining Akuma.
Ive been getting AA out of Demon Flips countless times and wondering what I was doing wrong.
walk up throw works wonders sometimes. Worth to give it a shot. If you see they’re mashing buttons and aren’t falling for it, then c.mk xx hado or c.mk xx mk demon flip are both good options
Had a quick play with the demonflip throw backdash to safe jump tonight. Works on Rog for all headbutts and all of Sagays tiger uppercuts but not against his ultra. Time for another video Lord
I was going to suggest the same thing. Dash in throw also works great too. If they aren’t mashing…
But, the demon flip palm of any strength already safejumps the headbutts, and technically Sagat’s uppercuts too, with strict timing… (and ultra so I don’t know why you can’t get it to work)…
This is similar as the exploding heart to demon flip safe jump on Ryu. Just adding to Akuma’s wake up tricks.
shrug I suppose, I tested it in training mode and the timing feels quite accurate. I just feel like it’s one of those things that you wouldn’t want to try to do more than once a game against Balrog because then he’s gonna be like “Oh yeah like what happened last time” before you even get up off the ground. But it’s not like Balrog can do much about meaty demon flip palm anyway, and if you know he realizes that, you can use the grab again instead for free, I guess it’s cool, I’ll probably use it XD.