Akuma’s backdash is invincible for the first 8 frames, so timed correctly it can avoid a lot of wake-up moves.
Right. so you empty jump in/empty demon flip away…and they stop Shoryu-ing. Then what do you do? Counter. It’s like…the essence of this mix-up. It’s sort of the point.
And just because you’re getting hit by the shoryu it doesn’t mean you’re doing it right.
And this isn’t directed solely at you, Superlollo, just at the many posters that are not doing it quiiite right, and coming here before adjusting their timing.
What…if you do a properly done cross up LK with akuma I have stuffed everyone of the shoto’s uppercuts…it’s all about proper spacing and timing…yeah if you fuck-up you’re eating an ass load of dmg. Plus You can’t auto-correct dP cross-up air FB because that shit stuffs all but ex dp’s as well. ANNNDD you have the tried but true cross-up tatsu…condition them to know that wake up dp doesn’t work (but since every idiot still loves wake up dP it’s hard to mix-up) then vortex their ass with empty jump cLK->hitconfirm->combo. Or just empty jump throw into a double dash setup. Oh I forgot to tell you forward throw->2x dash->lk demon flip kick is a true safe jump on ryu. Some japanese dude figured this out…it’s hard to time so I just forward throw->sHK->mk demon flip kick…doesn’t get you as close but baits the wake up dP and you’re far enough away to where if they do have meter they can’t cancel it anyways for a free punish…not as good but it works against most people.
I will add this info in a bit, nice finds.
Can someone translate what bokkin said ?
It’s kinda confusing…
^^^ he said:
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lk jump in is safe to Dragon Punch on wake-up.
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Cross-up Fireball is safe to Dragon punch on wake-up except for the EX versions.
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Once you get them to stop using dragon punch on wake-up you can attempt to do other things like empty jumps, jump ins, etc
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Forward throw and then dashing twice and doing lk demon flip is safe (meaning using the palm) to dragon punch wake-ups.
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Bokkin sucks :wonder: so he uses grapple, HK, then mk demon flip to do a sad sad waspinator worthy attempted at terrorizing them with a safe jump (well… safe demon flip) to bait the DP even though its not TECHNICALLY a safe jump but rather an attempt to get them to throw their DP out.
And I don’t know if it was mentioned (this is half question half statement) but I think gen beats out double dash demon flips with his wake-up kicks since it has a billion active frames or something. Has anyone tested on him? Playin’ a gen online a few days ago and he was beating me pretty much clean every time i went for the actual kick (so of course I just went for palms and i was fine but yea).
(1) no…lk demon flip kick (like I said)…so if they dp…you block it…if they try to jump/grab they get hit if they block (they do nothing) you’re safe on block. (so yes it is TECHNICALLY a safe jump)
(2) That shit is hard to time right and if you’re off even by a little you’re eating some big dmg…so fuck you lol.
(3) Who the fuck worries about gen? you should never be close enough to a gen for a grab.
@1 oopsies… my bad. shame Of course that does make a lot more sense…lol.
@2 fuck that guy…lol
@3 Are you telling me that you somehow beat gen with only fireballs? I’m talking about good gens… not the general ones you play online where jump back fireball teleport repeat = 100% auto-win. Tech grabs do hit and gens DO sometimes block…lol. And I’m askin/sayin because its information for the thread more than being worried about whether it hits or not. Although I will say that gen CAN do some MASSIVE MASSIVE damage in the right hands even if only one hit connecting…
^gen…I have played yeb a few times 20-30 matches and yeah he beats me more than I beat him but that’s because he out spaced/played me then…gen hs no-response for sHK…he has to block bothhit’s standing or ducking. (like fuerte) Gen’s need to jump in to do dmg or space you out with sMK to confirm into hands. Watch the ed ma vs yeb match fb zoning does wonders against gen until he get’s super/ultra. air fb followed by a demon flip mix-up does work too. Outside of yeb I have never ever been outplayed by a gen, again there are probably some out there that could (jibbo, rashaan…) but outside of evo or nor cal regionals ( I’m going to these) when am I going to ever play them? Again that’s why I don’t fret to much about gen and take my time to work on my ryu/sagat/rufus/balrog match-ups.
No, I play a good gen and if you do it correctly it’s statistically impossible, waterfall kick takes 7 frames to start up, only the first 4 frames of those are strike invincible. The demonflip divekick has active frames all the way to the ground, so if you’re getting hit you’re probably doing it mad late, or miraculously too early (don’t know how that would be possible though). Who knows though, MAYBE doing it as fast as possible is not actually the answer against gen, but to do it a frame or two behind what you normally would?
Someone needs to check this, stat.
it was just an afterthought comment from something a few days ago but I just checked it right now and I’m pretty sure I was just doing it a bit late (it WAS online…so…) which is why I was asking and not just straight up saying. Would have simply tested it but xbox was at a friends till right now.
So …yea… pretty sure its fine. Damn netcode…
Akuma 1, Gen 0. YESSSSHHH!!
I don’t know if this has been asked yet, but what is the best option after a blocked demonflip kick? I usually see an option select cr. throw, or a cr. short. I sometimes just teleport out.
Any Thoughts?
i dont need a 100% correct answer, but just the general timing. Like right after as soon as possible? or wait for a little, or do it as late as possible
I don’t even think about it, you just go by feel. The more you use it in matches the easier it will be to understand. But really, it’s best to assume that it’s never completely safe (since it usually isn’t).
i get srked a lot lol
^ One way to mix up the dive kick is to overshoot the kick (ie use HK instead of MK) palm, land on the ground and sweep or combo from there. It takes one of these and they’ll rethink wakeup Srking you.
Haha, this.
Another variable I throw into the mix if I’m feeling sassy is to knock 'em down and stand on top of them and just as they are waking up, lk flip over them and immediately whiff hammer fist, then grab. Super-duper-exploding-heart-technique-etcetera-words-edition then comes into play and I can chase them for mk demon flip wake-up-stuffing dive kick fuckery.
Another option (if you have a full bar) and you’re REALLY gunning for unpredictability is to jump in with any attack, stand hp, mk demon flip (this flies BEHIND them them) whiff hammer fist in the air but press the punch TWICE (or plink lp~mp) and as soon as you land press towards with lk+hp. Ye olde Super demon.
Provided they haven’t jumped and you have them scared into blocking, they’re mulched as they are in the grabbing range of our Super. Reversal SRKs are odd to pull off for them as the direction has changed (unless they’re stick waggling masher types) and the hammer fist whiff makes Akuma hit the ground extremely fast.
These aren’t reliable ‘go-to’ options, but they’re a couple more to add to the list that works well towards building a stock-pile of unpredictable behaviour from Akuma.
^^ if they are mashing SRK and you demon flip off a normal you’ll be hit in the face. Not very fun against ryu with an ultra which is why i don’t really like the use of resets against the majority of characters (especially since ryu is a good 60% of the players online and maybe … 30%? of the players offline).
as to the question of a blocked demon flip kick… there are 5 options really imo.
- option select into a combo or block string
- c.lp, grab (if they are gonna block)
- srk (not a good option unless you A. think they will do something other than block or backdash and B. have the 2 bars to FADC incase they just simply blocked)
- backdash or teleport if they don’t have a way to punish the teleport.
- block… but be ready to tech(poor choice if they have a command grab)
generally ppl grab, mash srk, or just block. The majority simply block, watch out for srk mash against online players and against players that have the EX to safe SRK, better players with throw or option select since most players that are good don’t generally go straight into SRK because its risky. But its still part of the mix-up especially if you notice they are teching your throws a lot. Back dashers can usually be tripped on reaction because they don’t tend to block low right away often enough .
Against command throwers the SRK and the teleport/backdash become more important.
Yea good shit Ultima Good Job dog