10 more days!!!
I got the demo!
It’s got Sarah in it so I’ll be good until the 30th, I guess she’ll have the headstart for being my main over Jacky.
The toss up, it’s still there, Jacky or Sarah??
Telling stance is baiscaly for combos, open/closed stance aka the position of your feet with respect to your opponents feet when you start a combo. Depending on the stance depends on what combo you will do.
Example: Jacky beat knuckle (P+KP) will combo to 7K+G in closed and 6PK in open.
Iaigeri is Jacky’s G-cancel moves. Such as Slide Shuffle K~press G during hit detecton and his 6_K~press G during hit detection. You press guard during the hit frames of the kicks to speed up recovery frames making them insanely powerful pokes/combo starts/combo tools. Jacky’s 6_K iaigeri is used in all his best combos.
Inashi is Jacky’s auto-parry from neutral where he parries high and mid punches and you press P in time and he will auto attack back for a flop.
Just for people confused lol.
Depends on your play style. I play both but my main is Sarah. They are both really fun.
I just skimmed last couple pages without really reading much, but just wanted to chime in on character selection. I think Granby and KRS touched on this but kind of a danger of picking the complex characters (i.e. characters with lots of stance or frame-sensitive stuff) is that it can delay actually learning VF fundamentals. Characters like Shun, Kage, Vanessa, Lei-Fei, etc. have enough non-universal options to escape common situations that learning them pushes back when you actually learn to fuzzy, throw escape, ETE, and so on. The grapplers and characters like Lau, Jacky, Pai, few others encourage learning the actual system a little more.
A new version of the Brady guide with expanded strategy content and full ver C rival/item/emblem/Achievement lists is dropping along with the game late this month. Hope you enjoy it, let me know what you think if you pick it up. As usual I think Amazon is the cheapest place to get it, but it’s also available at the Bradygames website, and will be in retailers along with the game.
VF5 was already fantastic and this revision is even better, so if you didn’t pick it up on PS3 now’s the time. 
I respect the work you did on the guide, but pai? Pai’s got plenty of weird non-universal options
3P+K~Throw escape or 64P at mid to large disadvantage shuts down opponent’s basic throw/elbow . . .
K+G beats throw clash at any dis. . .
3P is a safe low that beats almost anything from neutral . . .
I sold my Halo 3 to get money for this game.
Yeah, I could tell man.
I think he meant on the offensive side of things, pai is very cheap when you are trying to pressure her from minor advantage. But pai on the offensive relies heavily on using OM, low throw, CD~0frame and other new system tactics that help you learn VF5 in general. You can apply the same strategy to Jeff and Jacky on the offense. Where as characters like Lei Fei and Kage don’t really use OM and dash 0 frame in their main game.
PS: Everyone should sell their Halo 3 for this game.
Pai’s offense is about using special properties to keep her in the flow. She has ways around most mids, low punch, and jab. She doesn’t need OM when her special properties shut down everything from the get-go. Pai’s low throws are hardly key to her game as she only has two and they do miniscule damage compared to her other options. They’re more like a cool gimmick than anything. 0frame setups aren’t a cornerstone to her game either because her throw game simply isn’t that good compared to Jeff, Wolf, Aoi, and Goh. Her throws are marginally better than Jacky’s and Lau’s.
Therefore the reason Pai isn’t that great for beginners is that she has lots of ways to defy the conventional nitaku game using special properties on moves like 1P, 3P, FC 4P, 4K, and 9K, so it can be confusing and frustrating to play pai like a conventional character who gets most of their damage from setups in frame advantages Pai simply can’t produce.
Woah woah woah, Pai has two 60 dmg throw directions, that’s hardly marginally better than lau and jacky that’s outright better than them. And it’s not like they sacrafice anything as they are both opposite directions and give her great positioning.
I don’t believe low throw is a gimmick, maybe not many Pai players use low throw, but in a game like VF5 which is fuzzy heavy, I have hard time believing any low throw is bad, and for all that Pai has her low throws aren’t bad at all. Show me an option that does way more damage than low throw and 0 frame and OM when she’s at minor advantage, cause I don’t see it.
Lau’s 33P+G throw does 55, and 2_6P+G does 60, compared to Pai’s 624P+G which does 60 and 2_6+P+G which can be teched down to 50. The damage is comparable.
Low throws are 45 and 35 damage respectively. Delay throw to beat fuzzy is much better.
As for OM, unless it changed substantially in Ver. C: http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/157206#Post157206
If you’re attacking out of small advantage both 2_6P and K are much better counterhit tools, and immediate/delay throw does The Big 60 like you said.
Somebody break down some goodness on Goh. His forum is dead.
Hi, I am new here. I recently picked up vanessa and I was wondering what juggles/combos people are using. I have messed around in training mode trying to string some things together and I also have taken a look at some of the exhibition matches that come with the game. I looked around for some combo videos but I couldn’t really find any. So i figured I would just ask some people. Thanks in advance.
Pai doesnt have a big unsafe normal hit launcher, which is a pretty basic part of (traditional) VF offense.
True. Not much reason to OM at small dis (sabaki, inashi) or small adv. Look at supa-cheap pai play - they don’t OM, they crouchdash in and out and abuse the weird-pai-moves-that-avoid-stuff.
They may not be as key as jeff or wolf, but 45 guaranteed damage on anyone who fuzzies is not miniscule (no, dash forward throw is not as reliable a way to beat fuzzy) and lowthrow~lowbackthrow~evil combo is definitely not a miniscule threat.
I have trouble taking anything you say seriously after this comment . . .
. . .but I still agree with this. The upside for Pai for beginners is that she has all of the available tools in the game (except for big normal hit launcher, as mentioned), so can stick with one chara & learn how to use e.g. low throw / reversal / inashi / sabaki.
PPPK is why Pai is good for beginners.
By the way, I thought they toned down Pai’s 60 dmg throws in version C?
Except OM isn’t -12, 2_6P IS -12 which puts Pai in the position to either being punished or thrown. K isn’t really reliable outside of punishment, this isn’t Akira were talking about. If K is ducked or evaded she is in big trouble, and even blocked it’s pretty dismal.
Delay throw IS good but low throw is not bad either. Problem with delay throw is that good players can tell the dash sound/animation and will reverse nitaku you (0frame will not clash). When you eat a fatty launcher delay throw isn’t so good anymore. Therefore low throw is very useful cause it’s unseen, a direct counter, and well it just freaks them out cause they forget about vs. Pai.
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OM is unreliable against abare players (which is who we’re gunning for with OM’s side crumple property) as the post from VFDC proves, and doesn’t lead to nearly as much damage as 2_6P. K can be used as a counterhit tool if you’re careful against people who try to scrub out low p in small disadvantage – and hey, guess what? Pai has a million options to beat low punch directly in those situations so setting up a K counterhit isn’t that hard.
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With delay throw you don’t have to rely on buffering a dash, you can simply wait and throw, and there’s no way they’re going to RN you on reaction.
Let me blow your mind here real quick. Low throw isn’t key to anyone’s game in VF. As a Wolf player there are few opportunities to actually set one up. You’re lucky to land one once every five matches. Watch more match videos for proof.
Um, ok? Jacky has one 55 dmg direction that leads to either a free down attack or ukemizeme, another 55 dmg direction, and a 45 dmg direction. Pai has 60, 50, 30ish and one that’s easily struggled and leads to setups, not gauranteed damage. So really she has one more direction than Jacky which doesn’t do that much damage outside of a wall hit.
1.) I’ve been using OM with many characters including Sarah from minor advantage and the only time I get beat is when they purposely delay launcher. The key is not to input P or K early so they don’t track. I’m pretty sure it works considering how good OM is with light weights (who can RN easy after blocked OM P cause of 10 frame P). If you OM K and it catches them MC you get more damage than 2_6P and you don’t have to risk being evaded/blocked for punishment. K counter hit doesn’t work cause most people WILL attack back with low punch, it’s only good vs. people who jab back instead or as a delay launcher vs. evade, and in that case you can 66KP, hell at +5 and up 66KP is technically much better. K is good for punishing and maybe when people try to dash in and don’t buffer in time. For how badly you can get pwned when 2_6P and K are evaded/blocked, not worth it to me.
- Waiting and delay is nice but people like to backdash too, and I don’t like it when I whiff a throw from delay. Maybe after MC 9K+G but I wouldn’t use it after say MC 2P or 6P.
EDIT: meant 9K+G not 7K+G, though now that I think about, 7K+G is the biggest bullshit ever. lol thank god for ver. C
I thought rev C just changed the startup crouch timing, guard stun and total execution for her scoop, not made it slow P counterable.
As for OM, if you’ve got reliable ways for it to avoid being blown out of the water by attacks that are normally linear, I’d love to hear more about it.
The only thing blowing my mind is that you can quote MY vfdc post about OM (which wasn’t all that great, honestly) as “proof” of one of your arguments, and then assume I have no idea how low throw works. Lack of opportunity? How about any time you’re being beaten by fuzzy? Low throw is a precise counter to fuzzy guard - it’s impossible for the opponent to duck a high throw and stand up in time to beat a low throw, because they’re both 12fr. The same cannot be said of delay throw, which is the whole point of it. As for replays, I’ve seen highkick low throw predictable lowP to win rounds. In person, i’ve seen e.g. Brisal land low throws w/ wolf to win rounds at the socal tourney. Hell, I suck ass at this game, and I was still able to land pai’s low throws on people in socal.
pai
4 60
6 55, just ukemi
5 40
3 39 or guessing game between CH and backthrow combo for large dmg
2 10 plus stagger or +12
jacky
4 55
3 55, just ukemi
6 45
5 38
how is this even an argument? Even after the revC nerfs, Pai does more damage at every option except one, AND has an extra direction. You may not think that extra direction matters, but it does guarantee as much damage as a jab (round ending throw) and gives enough advantage to allow her to annoy opponents to no end, which is pai’s modus operandi.