There’s surprisingly little that happens as far as notable actions when playing FPSs and MMOs when it comes to online code, and almost ALL of these games are optimized strictly FOR online play. There’s no real timing intensive motions you need to go through in order to do someing in either of those types of games.
In FPSs you twitch and shoot, and the worst that happens with lag is you miss your single shot if you’re sniping, or you just twitch accordingly with anything else. You should be leading a little anyway, and this is moot because at the competitive level this usually gets brought down to the LAN level, where then it’s just a matter of how powerful your computer is(which goes directly into why there’s so much money there, when a top player has a $500 sound card named after him).
As for MMOs, most of them are point and click with auto targeting and stats ruling the land. You can get away with a lot of ignoring there as far as commands.
Fighters CAN get away with it. shrug Most prefer it to not be this way unless they have no choice.
Examples? Devs are putting the fighting games in the right place, Japan, where there’s still a pretty good market for it. Anything done overseas is usually icing unless it’s specifically designed for the overseas fanbase(which as far as fighters go is pretty much just MK, which sells with or without online for some reason:confused:)
I haven’t read gaming mags in a while but I’m sure fighters still get their time to shine provided they make it over there to the states/whereever. The internet and word of mouth are stronger than ever. So why are MK and DoA beating the games we prefer? I’m gonna stand by my point that VF is really not suited for online simply because there’s no easy mode for people to THINK they accomplished something. Those 2 games work because they’re simple, not much is demanded of them. DoA4 has broken the mold somewhat, but there’s still stuff for the least common denominator. What would VF5 have to offer the average online gamer that wouldn’t take weeks of dedication to learn just to get his foot in the door? VF4Evo had the greatest tut mode EVER, a low price, pretty good hype, and that game went NOWHERE.
Believe me, I WANT THIS TO WORK. But this is neither the game nor the time.
No fighting game is suited for online play. But adding online play doesn’t detract from the game, and if sega wants it to sell then they’ll include it. If not i could see quite a few people buying the game when it’s released, only to return it a week later becuase “they beat it on level 8”.
I don’t see why catering to the average player who most likely barely understands why DoA4 systems work will want to completely change their outlook and learn a more demanding fighter. DoA4 works online because it was never truly intended as a fighting game for the fighting game fans.
With all due respect to you and the rest of the srk guys why do you state doa4 was never truly intended as a fighting game for the fighting games fans? It is a really responsive,sharp well playing game, I understand why you guys like vf better because There simply a lot more variables that effect the match and that certainly makes sence. I ask this because doa4 is better than 85-90% of other 3d fighting games with the exception being virtua,tekken, and maybe sc. I’m really looking forward to VF5 all ready have my ps3 and vf5 preordered, but I hope online makes it so maybe more people can possibly get interested and learn more advanced techniques and stratiges from better players.
It’s all relative to what your definition of a fighting game fan is. I look at it in terms of the overall welcome the series gets, and the actual respect it garners from its community. Nowhere do I say that DoA isn’t a good game, but there are a lot of factors that drag other people who don’t play fighters into it, and it’s the over-the-top stuff+BUBZ factors(like a certain American franchise:confused:). These people will end up dropping VF5 like a bad habit, and while that’s good for initial sales, it won’t be good in the long run. Bah, it’s late here and I’m babbling. Take all I’ve said so far with a grain of salt. I’m extra bitter when I’m tired. =x
What are the other 85-90% of other 3d fighters? There’s not a whole lot out there that actually fall into the genre. =/
If some guy on the internet tells me that some game I’m not likely to ever actually see is awesome, what good does that do me? MK’s beating out something like KOF11 because people know MK exists. But like you said, it seems like anything outside of Japan is just icing on the cake. So I guess as long as a “US release” consists of 3 arcade machines scattered across the US and a half-assed port a year later, it’s not going to change
Of course, this was different like 10 years ago when VF2 was in every arcade. Something will have to be sacrificed for popularity. Do you want a dumber VF6 that everyone plays because popular opinion was that VF5 was too hard? What would be the point of playing then? But wait, you’ll have comp then. =/ It’s a double-edged sword, and all of these random factors ain’t helping one bit.
I’d see SK’s point if online SF didn’t exist, or was totally unsuccessful, neither of which are true. Online HF usually has people online who are either very good, or getting increasingly better, with more people coming in all the time. And I don’t think HF is particularly scrub friendly, especially at high level play, which is what you tend to get online. The audience is there, Sega just needs to take a risk and try to reach out to them. And as I’ve said multiple times, even if online play doesn’t help any, it doesn’t hurt either. The game will still have everything that it would otherwise, and nobody’s gonna force you to play online. But for those of us who want it, it’s an option, and it should be standard by now. Just about every other game genre has it, and has been fairly successful as well. Sure, you could argue that FPS games are far easier to pick up and do well online, but what about RTS games. I know from experience (cuz I horribly suck) that you can’t just hop online and do well at all. Yet they are also very popular.
I think the key point is right there. They have probably made all their money in japan with arcades and sales, so if they can port it to the us cheaply with not many extras, then it’s gravy. Sadly IMO they’re missing out on sales here and from a fighting gamer’s POV they’re hurting the scene.
I don’t know. If VF6 came out and was simple as hell, I don’t think that would really do too much for it’s popularity. I mean, it’s not like Bloody Roar’s selling worth a damn. Racing games have room for both Burnout and Gran Turismo, FPS games have room for Rainbow Six and Unreal, Sports games have room for Madden and Blitz. I don’t think a game has to be knocked down to retard-level to pull in players.
Having said that, if I had to choose between a complex game that nobody plays and a simpler game that everybody plays, I’d take the simpler one. If I never get a chance to really exercise extra complexity, then to hell with it. Even after playing GGX2 all this time, I have no idea what Sol’s dust loop is. Why bother? I don’t need it to murder the CPU and the CPU won’t ever use it on me. I can just corner it and recklessly throw out random combos and breeze through the game. But I made damn sure I hit the training mode in DoA4 until I could pull off my combos blindfolded, upside and backwards if I had to. Even in a game like DoA, even against C-ranked players, that shit mattered. I haven’t gotten that feeling from a fighting game in years
It’s a little late to expect any sudden turn-arounds from VF, I just wish fighting games in general would take a bigger interest in online play
Tough topic, coming from the DoA community I can say online was nice at bringing in the numbers and interest. However SK is right, online brought ALOT of chicken shit players into the scene. It also brought a false sense of numbers. Those of you guys that honestly think DoA is big and popular in the tournament scene need to lay off the weed. DoA4 has for a year consistently proven that it cannot sustain neither a local grass roots scene nor can it bring big numbers in the majors (highest doa tournament is STILL Evo Finals… which is sad cause EVO finals was basically 20 real DoA players + 43 vultures). So for those of you who said DoA was a success from online play well, that is still to be detirmined. I can only hope my old community can pull some kind of crazy reversal before evo2k7, since according to sources DoA4 will once again be back and hopefully there will be more ACTUAL doa players than vultures.
Now for VF I think it CAN work if it is done right. First off, there should be no rankings or records. Cause that shit is tools for the common chicken shit online player who likes to count his SS grade as reasons for respect. Next I say adopt the DoAU system (not the terrible DoA4 system) and make it open to people to come in and watch and play. I think it would be cool as a tool for those who live in BFE (I don’t know say Wyoming or Iowa or something like that) and have no chance of playing VF with a human. They can get at least basic human yomi practice and show off their character customizations online. While there are some serious chicken shit types that come from online play I have also met a bunch of real cool dudes who would have never traveled or taken high level play seriously with out it. VF has it’s dedicated core that have access to venues, travel often, and host gatherings (something DoA does not and probably never will have) so if online play is implemented right, it will suck players right into the scene and hopefully won’t cause as much shit as it did to the DoA community.
^VFDC will have the character’s move list and frame data up shortly. They have just updated their forums on new servers and going through a site makeup overall.
Are you more in line of asking for new moves from FT to VF5? That might pop up when the site is finished up.
Right now the forum style looks shitty, I suggest to check them in a week or so.
They are some Japanese sites with character specific info but I don’t know them offhand. For now thanks to Makatiel on VFDC, here is a link for Goh’s movelist and frame data here.
A little of both. I’m still playing catchup on Evo so I’m hoping between this and the new guidebook that I can bring myself somewhat up to speed before I play matches and lose 0-100
