Tbh the scar on Sagat is a symbol of shame and weakness for him
Other than that i absolutely agree, ever though each shadaking can kill the ones below
Ever found cool that you fight a bull (Rog), then a bullfighter that kill bulls easily (Vega) 
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For him, yes, but for the game it makes the link with SF1, validates the canon ending of Ryu wining with a Shoryuken, in conjunction with the Tiger Uppercut, and makes Sagat appear as a more dangerous opponent.
Especially in japan where Balrog is Mike Bison.
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I remember reading SF2 lore in my childhood years and reading Sagat developed his “tigah uppacah” as a direct response to the shoryuken to his ass.
Is that canon?
True, but Daemos’ claim was “Bison was always more powerful than all of them combined”, not that Bison was the strongest of the four.
SF2 on its own only implies the relative strength of Balrog<Vega<Sagat<Bison and shows Sagat is second-best while Bison is best. It doesn’t speak towards the degree of difference in their power. They could all be fairly close (as Jion_Wansu suggested), or it might be impossible for Balrog to even touch Bison before being KO’d (as Daemos implied).
To be fair, enemies in Street Fighter 1 had barely any attacks. They had to give Sagat more moves just to match the standards of the rest of the SF2 roster. The same was true for Balrog, who at the time presumably really was SF1 Mike.
Now, that they gave Sagat the Tiger Uppercut to be similar to Ryu…
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I’ve been under the impression that Boxer/Claw are roughly equal as they are based off scaled up SF1 characters (Claw is only higher because he hard counters Boxer’s canon weaknesses), Sagat is above them as a scaled up boss, and Bison is the new “top dog”. Sagat is presumably right around Ryu’s level as their fight was so close, so if Ryu can beat Bison in SF2 (before later games retconned the hell out of that fight), I think Sagat is close enough to Bison to have a shot at winning. As for Boxer/Claw vs Bison, they have about as good a chance as the rest of the WW not named Ryu or Sagat.
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Agree
Its like Bison > Sagat because of the awarding platform at the ending of the game then I would take Balrog and Vega in equal before stories were flesh out. Like Balrog killing an elepant of Dhalsim.
This is exactly what it is.
It ia put there just to represent that this character is from a previous game to confirm an important event from there and his out for revenge.
Revenge motif in plots are common narrative in movies and video games back in the 80s and 90s
Same with jealous brother, kidnap lover, avenge master and friendly rivalry.
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At the very minimum it is strongly implied.
Ah, ok, in this case I don’t know, it’s just Daemos being Daemos I guess.
I don’t believe there’s any definite answer for that because that’s exactly the kind of question SF2 team wanted to avoid.
Some people in this thread might delude themselves into believing that there was a story in SF2. There were 8 of them by design, none compatible. Capcom designed a game not a story. Deciding a winner in advance, for example, would have been seen in the game, and would have weakened a character. They wanted to sell 8 protagonists, not 1.
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Let’s be honest though, there’s no way that particular ending is canon.
In what world does Bison hold a tournament, lose, and then go to the award ceremony and stand around on the 2nd place platform? I can’t imagine Bison ever doing that.
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So is Seth the Buu of SF
Will Story Mode 2 have us fight him and at the end he pops out Elena, Makoto, and Demitri from his belly. And then Demitri says get ready for DS The Mobile game
No, Necalli is 1000% the Buu of SF.
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He was just talking about things when it’s all World Warrior and before Championship Edition.
Thing were there aren’t even real canon other than Ryu scared sagat, when things were simpler back in the day.
Not necessarily.
In one of those old SF2 books, can’t remember which one, but it had black & white spider charts for power levels for all characters, and Bison was full power (10s across the board, the only one). It distinguished him as stronger than all the other Kings combined and the old plot guide even mentions this.
Considering that we’ve seen what Bison is singularly capable of doing during the SF2/SFA3 era, I have no doubt that that remains true to this day. SF5 Bison would wipe the floor clean with all the other Shadaloo Kings. He wouldn’t be at the helm of an organization that sanctifies the will to power without being at that level.
I’m honestly surprised that anyone would doubt this. Sagat, Balrog, and Vega are exceptionally powerful fighters, but they have never demonstrated a special skill or ability that would allow them to topple someone like Bison. The worst they can do to him is what they have already done, which is betray him and to sometimes devastating effect.
In what world? The world of Street Fighter 2, before Capcom established a different personality for Bison. Back when Bison was pretty much just another world warrior competing in a tournament. Maybe all the way back when Bison had darker skin and a very East Asian face.
Capcom started with vague and potentially contradicting ideas, and it was likely some time before they settled into the ideas that we know today. When working on the live action movie, Stephen de Souza said that Capcom hadn’t figured out the series even then, and instead supplied documents of various possibilities. (With de Souza taking a liking to the one where Bison had a Bond-villain secret island military base, with missile silos and a submarine.)
What’s worse is that even if we received a semi-modern definite answer direct from one of the people involved with the game, it would still be questionable whether it was legit at the time the game was being made.
Not too long ago, I was reading over an old Polygon article about the history of Street Fighter 2, where they interviewed various people involved with the title. Those involved couldn’t even agree on seemingly basic details, such as whether SF2’s development started before or after Final Fight, or even whether the game was in development for 10 months or two years. And those are things that should be outright hard facts, rather than just possible opinions of “X is Y times stronger than Z”.
(Re-reading that article did disappointingly remind me that, fitting Capcom’s history of giving female characters lower health seemingly just for being female characters, Yoshiki Okamoto had outright said that he wanted Chun-Li to have a shorter gauge than everyone else “because women are not as strong”.)
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Plot twist/Irony = Bison is now just another Bond villain with a secret island military base AND he’s back to being a world warrior in it for the fight. The circle is complete!
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Capcom’s chauvinism has deep roots, unfortunately. The result is the incompetent Chun-Li (and Cammy…) we all witnessed in ASF.
Yes, and not only Necalli=Buu, many SF bosses have similarities with DBZ enemies:
Vegeta ----) Sagat
-Vegeta was the first main rival in DBZ and Sagat was the first rival in SF series.
-Vegeta was a prince and Sagat was called king.
-Vegeta was part of the Frieza Army and Sagat was one of the Shadaloo´s Four Heavenly Kings. Vegeta and Sagat were the underlings of Frieza and Bison.
-Vegeta and Sagat are egotistical and full of pride, but later abandon their roles in both armies (Frieza Army and Shadaloo), fighting alongside the DBZ Fighters and SF Fighters; all the while striving to become the most powerful warriors, specifically with the mission to defeat and surpass Goku or Ryu in power. They evolve from villains to anti-heroes, through the course of the series.
Frieza ----) Bison
-Frieza is the galactic emperor who controls his own imperial army and is feared for his ruthlessness and power and Bison is a ruthless, arrogant and unforgiving dictator who seeks to rule the world with an iron fist whilst also becoming the greatest and most powerful martial artist of all time. They are very similar.
-Frieza and Bison are physically incapable of feeling empathy for others and more so take pleasure in watching people suffer, never feeling a shred of regret or remorse for the numerous atrocities that they have committed.
-While demanding absolute loyalty and obedience from their subordinates, Frieza and Bison consider them as mere pawns rather than human beings, and tolerates their henchmen only as long as they serve their dark ambitions, displaying their lack of regard for human life. For the same reason, they offer to spare others’ lives on the condition that they pledge their undying loyalty to them.
Cell ----) Seth
-Cell and Seth are completely single-minded in pursuit of their goals and are very cautious, sneaky, cunning and calculating in achieving their main goal of perfection.
-Cell and Seth have carefree and laid-back attitude, not losing any form of composure until he was faced with the prospect of a being that is stronger than them.
-They are genetic experiments and possess information on some strong warriors.
-Cell and Seth have the techniques of those whose cells make up their body from the time when the samples are taken from them.
Buu ----) Necalli
-They are ancient beings that have existed for a long time. They seem to cycle between rampages and long hibernation.
-Buu and Necalli can absorb strong fighters and gain their powers and abilities.
-They are virtually invincible forces of destruction, and, because of their absolutely wild and ruthless nature, they cannot be controlled easily.
Beerus —) Gill
I know that this could sound weird but I think that they share some similarities between them.
-Beerus is a God and Gill is called a Messiah or Savior. They share a religious theme.
-They have one brother (Champa and Urien), and they don´t get along very well with them.
-They have one assistant (Whis and Kolin), who always accompanies them.
-They have always been there. I mean, Illuminati exists from immemorial times and the Gods of Destruction seem to be eternal.
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For a side bar, I greatly appreciate the acknowledgement of Fatal Fury/KOF, especially in the conversations about Rugal, Geese and the other particularly brutal bosses that came after them.
I hope that Geese is specifically playable in KOF15 when it does become available.
Meanwhile…
If there is to be a next DLC character, I really would love for it to be Rose, for the sake of offsetting Bison’s Psycho Power once again. I doubt if Capcom writers and the team are going to try this, however.
I do a lot of wishful thinking which is only a good thing in moderation.
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If they reuse the engine and assets of 14 then I’d guess he’s pretty likely. He’s already in KOF14, and is one of the characters that even received an alternate outfit (Nightmare Geese, with matching voice). It would also perhaps be silly for SNK to skip Geese when he’s also guest-starring in the still current Tekken.
The big question is whether they’ll reuse KOF14 assets. SNK’s decision to try to figure out modern 3D graphics on their own resulted in the graphics of KOF14 being heavily criticized throughout development and after release. SNK Heroines reused those assets and seemed to fizzle pretty badly as well. Now they’ve published Samurai Shodown, which compared to KOF14 offers a very noticeable upgrade in visuals. Can they afford to go back to KOF14 assets at this point? At the same time, can they afford to not go back to KOF14 assets?
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Idk if we will ever get canon confirmation, but Tiger Uppercut is essentially hint to be Sagat’s reply to Ryu’s Shoryken (Rising Dragon Fist)… an “uppercut” is literally a rising fist lol
I may be wrong but my guess ever been also they wanted to hint it rep Sagat’s purpose of revenge, hoping not only to defeat Ryu but to give him a physical/spiritual scar identical to the one he received
I ever thought the truth to be kinda in the middle of these two.
At least speaking of SF2 impression i got is the ladder was real to the point each King had evident edge over the ones below, but at same time the gap was’nt immense… like surely not Bison > Sagat+Vega+Rog
Otherwise will have been a bit ridicolous expect WWarriors to win a 1-1
Bison was supposed to incarnate the enemy better than you at everything, a desperate fight but somehow still a winnable one doing your veryvery best
I think the 4 steps ladder there worked fine, my guess is as vague indication Vega would generally outperform Rog by same margin Sagat will have on him, or Bison will have on Sagat
ASF portrayed that #3 > #4 gap nicely imho, Vega looked more dangerous:
Rog: have trouble with Gief, was going to lose if not for Ed, then he struggles in a 1v2 true (Mika+Ibuki), but in ASF they was portrayed as very rookies
Vega: successful stops Guile, have upper hand on Cammy twice. He looks also twice below Juri’s level, but Juri herself is a powerful character
I got the vibe if you switch their ASF paths, Vega will still do better against Gief and the 2 young girls than Rog did
I guess the point of 4 Kings, specially at first when they was’nt selectable, was that even the lowest was at least slighty above the average WWarrior
The cool symbolism was the weakest King to be SF clone of who -in real life- at the time was considered the strongest fighter of the world
Like both being clearly weaker than Bison, but Rog having slighty “less worse” chance to beat Bison than Honda or Blanka (Ryu of course being the anomaly, as you said)
Of course that was ridicolous, but at same time was a way for them to imply only “the Champion” can be above Bison*, and Sagat confirming his place in the ladder below him
*Of course we are speaking of a world where Akuma bullshit was still not invented, but even there the act of have him istantkill Bison worked on same logic, and enemy only “the Champion” can defeat
Necalli is 1000% the Kars of SF.
Rarely SF has been more blarant, when you see Nec’s story
Tbh i ever found that point fair, just i liked how they boosted agility/speed of females to be generally above average (in combo with smaller body/hurtbox)
If anything what was wrong (but slighty fixed in later chapters) was not have a Zangief/Honda/Rog able to take more damage than Ryu
Well, speaking of hp we disagree, but
we agree on this
Not that i necessary want it to change, but i can see multiple hints in ASF of some mentality
Not just Chun and Cammy…almost everyone tbh
Chun: get beaten multiple times until she trigger Mother love Power to get serious and defeat Fang (also seems fight Fang 2nd time is easier, guess lose poison surprise effect)
Cammy: aka Vega punchbag
Juri: best performance no doubt (upper hand twice on Vega), but we know she got tech that power her up
Karin: even over-glorified in Asf… But results wise biggest thing she got was defeat Fang (something other 3 did) and a fight with megaphone girl
Laura: show some tits, fight a surprised Ken then disappear (edit: also show some tits then fight a tag team match we will never see)
Mika/Ibuki: portrayed as the rookies, possibly just Birdie being worse
Kolin: does’nt fight, but Juri seem to consider her a better challenge (than Rashid)
Ironically also Kolin end up being -possibly- artificially power-upped (if ice has been a “gift” by Gill)
Overall i see what you say of ASF to be overall true
If we must believe leakers, Rose and Oro in SFV are the safest bets if we get one more Season
Rose make perfect sense while at it, not much for Psycho Power stuff, but more to unveil G’s mystery… maybe we will understand why Capcom pointed at him as SFV Boss
Whether SNK uses the previous engine remains to be seen. I really hope they come up with something soon though… Preferably something of higher quality.
To possibly derail the thread…
If Geese does make a return, he needs to have his Jaei Ken make a return and maybe have a command grab in the same way as he did before (although, in 98, his command grab is what his back throw is now and that is also the case in numerous games such as CVS2).
Geese is solid in KOFXIV, but he seems a little too “honest” if that is supposed to be a term:
He does not have a Ranbu super, which in this case would have been Deadly Rave or a variation of it. His one bar damage is higher than usual and he also gets over 500 damage very easily if he is specifically at the mid range… Getting that amount of damage from the mid screen to the wall got awkward because he would have to go for a reset or just finish the combo with a hard knockdown with Fudo Ken~6B and then keep them in the corner. Despite these kind of weaknesses, his buttons are as beefy as usual.
I just hope that he gets Jaei Ken at least, or a move where he travels forward specifically. It is stated that Fudo Ken was actually meant to augment Geese’s mix -up game (which was already good to begin with, due to the mere fact that his low confirms were relatively decent in 98UM and he had a command grab to begin with. That’s not even including the usual mix-ups like empty jump low/throw for example.
Let the Goose go Loose.