TBH, I never understood why people see the two of them as that. I always thought that their relationship was more akin to that of brothers, they literally grew up together. Yeah, it’s a funny joke but at the same time. Maybe that kind of stuff just looks bizarre to westerners?
As for Guy+Cody, yeah there’s something going on between them. I’d also nominate Guile+Charlie.
Probably. I doubt Street Fighter’s writers care much about the science of it.
Can we just… do away with Bison as a main antagonist already? If they want to turn him into a ghost that haunts Ed or whatever, fine, so be it, but make it a Side B plot, not the main focus of the upcoming next chapter in the Street Fighter story. I’m sorry, but I’m tired of seeing Bison as the main baddie time after time
In the one story I know (Alpha3), Bison and Rose shareD one soul during the time between SFA2/3 and SF2/4. Their master-pupil relationship preceded that by decades. Everything else is up for debate.
Unless Capcom conclusively states and describes their shared history, that is what I am sticking to.
Furthermore, Rose tells Bison in SF5 of his fate which is separate from her own. If they were indeed one person divided in two, she would arguably share his fate. But she makes no such distinction.
There was plenty of opportunity in the new era for Capcom to acknowledge your theory, but they chose not to. And instead they only went as far as alluding to what happened to Rose after the Alpha era and before SF4.
Daemos has contacts inside Capcom of Japan and he’s paying good money to keep things as they are, it’s never gonna happen.
Then our course of action is clear
Bison needs a game or two out of the limelight. Have G/Illuminati be a credible threat, flesh out their organizations, THEN have Bison return to form after the palette cleanser.
Or better yet, an ACTUAL tournament arc without behind the scenes fuckery.
That was supposed to be Bison and Cammy based on SF cartoons and SF2 games before Alpha was release and change how everyone percieve relationships and connecion of the fighters.
This was kinda common knowledge back-in-the-day but is easily forgotten due to the many modern re-interpretation of the game and it’s canon from different sources.
I want the Capcom new to remove the complicated stuff on Bison on having clones like Cammy as the rest of the dolls and the Neo Shadaloo guys as his alternative body.
Other than purpose of genetically modified individuals that are capable of handling a portion Psycho Power and can be remote in a distance by mind control.
As for Rose discussed by @bakfromon and rest that Bison and Rose relationship are still divided into multiple questionable and rumored things because of many different interpretation from different sources.
A.) Bison and Rose are sharing a single Soul that Bison purge the other half of the good side.
B.) Bison was also once a Rose master
C.) another new one that both Rose and Bison is been taught by a Master like Gouken and Akuma to Goutetsu. Which makes both Bison and Akuma killing their Masters. while Rose having the similar thing as Gouken role in Akuma and Goutetsu.
Me I probably like Capcom to abandon the sharing soul idea because it’s can easily confused others people that has a different but common knowledge of spirituality and seeing soul as a unique spiritual manifestation or an astral personification of an individual.
Sharing soul is really a complicated thing to be explained to a common person without no interest of what is that and this.
As we discussed before I prefer that Bison was once Rose’s master that became corrupted and evil.
Agreed. But out of the limelight should not equate out of the game. That’s all I care for ultimately because as much as I love him as a character I enjoy playing him more.
When it comes to Cammy & Bison, everything was clear even before Alpha came out, it’s not like stuff got retconned… The JP version of Cammy’s ending only said that Cammy killed for Bison back in the day, not that they were in love (yeah, Capcom USA’s translation skills were way too good…).
No it wasn’t clear. Were talking about common knowledge here in a perspective of a common person that was informed through comics books, video game endings and cartoons.
Those were knowledge from the dominant media across the world for a common person not in Japan. So translation and fan translation like we do in the forums and wiki isn’t a thing back then also to be considered as relevant for reasoning. Also the SF2 ending isn’t really clear without the establish stuff from SF3, SF4 and SFA. SF2 clear? wait what?
So saying it’s in japan and without SFA doesn’t make a strong evident against a more wide spread media or something that is already clear because it wasn’t clear, Sf2 endings alone isn’t clear because its obscure, vague and complicated.
Agree, Alternating is always a good idea. Capcom should handle their popculture characters not making them always the protagonist and antagonist but always present and available rather than being killed and disposed.
Bison killed his dog, and now he’s going to pay for that mistake 
I was looking into SF3 and noticed something that I didn’t know. Stamina values in SF3 are far different than SFIV and SFV. Average stamina is 1120 not 1000. Chun Li has average health. Ryu, Ken, Alex, Q, and Makoto are high health characters at 1200 (I knew Makoto had high stamina. Didn’t realize Ryu and Ken did as well.) Yun has more health 1080 than Yang 1020 (WTF!?). Hugo has 1385 and Akuma has 985. This isn’t including taunts. Q and Hugo can increase their stamina rating by taunting.
Which they already did. You have Rose’s Zero/Alpha 3 (both in the japanese and international text) ending, All About Capcom, SF Eternal mentioning, without any doubt, that they have the same soul. The Japanese dialogue to Balrog/Vega, Rose even mentions that “what was divided, shall become one again.”. She doesn’t mention if it’s their power, their fate or their souls. After that, she finishes the dialogue with “After that (the 2 become 1 again)… it’s impossible for me, and even for him, to imagine what the future holds…”. All of it was changed in the international version.
In the jap text, when she reaches Vega/Bison, she mentions “This outcome was dertermined since the moment of the encounter.” It isn’t clear what encounter, even if it was a physical one. I’m pretty sure it was when they fought during Zero 2. But it could ALSO be when she saw him in a limo on her Zero 1 backstory.
After Vega/Bison pit Juni and Juli (probably it was Aprile), their dialogue proceeds with:
Japanese: Rose: Neither of us can escape from this…
International: There’s no escape… for either of us…
Jap: Vega: You mean you’re ready to fight to the death? Admirable preparation!
Int: Bison: A rose without thorns means friendship… Come now…
Jap: Vega: As in the past, submission seems to be what suits you the most.
Int: Bison: I should never have allowed you to grow thorns…
Jap: Rose: At that moment, it’s what became the trigger of this tragedy…
Int: Rose: No! That obedience is what caused all this tragedy…
The ending is pretty much the same, but Vega/Bison doesn’t outright tells that they have the same soul:
Japanese: Rose: I didn’t want to bring you down like this…
International: Rose: It wasn’t supposed to end like this…
Jap: Rose: The master from the past… Now… Must be killed by these hands…
Int: Rose: You were my master… Now I must destroy you with my own hands…
Jap: Vega: Your decision is formidable… Of course, there is nothing else to do, but to behave like this.
Int: Bison: Guh… You impressed me… There was no way to end this…
Jap: Vega: However… This is not the “end” desired by my “soul.”
Int: Bison: But… my “soul” will not be extinguished just yet!
Jap: Vega: Wish to know… your future …!
Int: Bison: Just imagine your future…!
Jap: Vega: Can you see it?
Int: Bison: Can you see it?!
Jap: Vega: Using the power whose manipulation was only granted to the two of us.
Int: Bison: Can you see who truly wields the power granted only to us?
Jap: Vega: Your image fluttering amidst the darkness of life…
Int: Bison: It is YOU who stands victorious in the world of eternal doom!!
Jap: Rose: …!! …what is it?!..
Int: Rose:…!! …What… what is this…!
Jap: Rose: If so… you… no… I-I…
Int: Rose: This means… you will… No… I myself… will…
Jap: Vega: Yes… We will return… Just as you… and I had wished…!
Int: Bison: Right… we’ll return to where we belong… as was our wish!!
Jap: Vega: Despite different lives … the soul …
Int: Bison: Two separate lives share the same… soul…
I don’t know if in SFV Capcom will change any of this, but until they do, like they did with Nash’s death, there’s no reason for us to believe that there’s something different.
The theory part here, was what happened AFTER her Zero 3 ending, which was clarified last year with “Beyond the World” timeline.
It’s Menat who “says” to Vega about Rose’s prophecy. And who knows if she told them the right one.
Rose vanilla SFIV prologue mentions that she defeated Vega and then, she can’t remember what happened after that. It’s possible that she forgot all the explanation of them having the same soul (and we don’t know if the possession proceeded the way it did in her Z3 ending). All she remembers is that she woke up outside a base. Also, in her SFIV ending, it seems that Vega left something inside of her. I don’t know if that’s only those memories (the Human Incubator project, Ed) or if he took back his portion of their soul.
Rose and Vega doesn’t have to share the same fate. Or, if Vega possess Ryu, Rose’s soul will possess him too?
That’s because everything was already explained, at least “Capcom style” explained, in her Zero 3 ending.
And that’s not my theory, I simply placed together what Capcom gave us.
None of the Japanese translations you posted really contradict the fundamental meaning of the English translations in SFA3.
As for the SF4 ending, Bison either wiped her memories or took back a fragment of his power/essence/soul that he left behind after Alpha 3. The latter implies that Bison uses Rose as a hocrux, similar to how he uses Ed. As long as a piece of his essence remains in the physical plane, he can always regain a foothold.
But you see, this is not the same as suggesting that Bison and Rose were the same person, or that Rose is Bison’s “good half”. There is no good in Bison, there wasn’t any for him to eject out. That’s Udon bullshit as far as I am concerned.
It all just reminds me of Silent Hill and the story of Alessa.
Alessa and Cheryl were the same soul at one point, but it got divided into 2 different beings. Once the souls merged again, it was reborn into Heather.
Yeah, but the main difference is how Rose takes the whole “I must kill my master” mission. In the jap version, you can feel how sad she is to have to go to such length and even feel a little bit of guilt that she didn’t stop him back when she was his pupil. In the end, you can even feel how tragic it was for her to do it, and it’s even a bigger tragedy for her to realize that, one day, she WILL become just like him. Either if he possess her or if she let herself be seduced and start using the power for evil purposes. The international text seems more superficial, like “Yeah, I have to kill my master, that’s sad but… I have to do it.”
Thats why he keeps her alive, so, if any emergency happens, like at the end of the Zero 3 arc, she could be perfect vessel for his soul.
Same soul isn’t same person, Vega and Rose are 2 different persons with the same soul split in half.
The whole “Rose is Vega’s good half”… I’m pretty sure this came from the REALLY old Warrior’s Fate board back in 2001. I even dare to say that it was either Saiki, Tiamat or Vasili who came with this idea after Vega’s SF2’Champion Edition account was “analyzed”. Tha part where Vega ejects his good side was an theory (which Capcom never acknowledged) that it happened when Vega killed his master and went to a murder spree… It was even theorized that Vega’s master initially taught him Soul Power instead of Psycho Power, and that, when Vega focused on his hate, it was converted into Psycho Power. It seems that none of it was true after the old publications were found and more people could translate them.
Just to make this stage complete:
The red board with white letters reads: Amoi’s Meat Company
The yellow sign on the light pole: Do not spit here.
The orange board with yellow letter on the far right reads: Shanghai Salon (Hairdresser)
Would you mind to check these, @Midgardsorm?
Since I want the soul-sharing thing be not the case of Bison and Rose and be ditch completely because of complications, I prefer something that Bison indeed that can brainwash and control a person via certain conditions like the need of infusing Psycho Power to subconsciously corrupt a person using the Psycho Drive rather than the said ho-crux cased on Rose which complicate it internationally.
This can also compromised with the cased of Violent Ken, but in a way why Ken is resisting so process Bison needs to turn off a part of mostly a lot of the left part of the brain to be control because Bison can only manipulate someone psyche with psycho power via negatives thoughts like guilt, regrets and fear, so he preys with with Ken’s suppress means of thoughts to be even in a unfair way, which would be the only thing that Bison can manipulate and used as a foothold to control and influence Ken’s psyche.
That it also grant Ken’s Psycho Powered and enhance Ansatsuken Techniques
So this is how to make an VKen an entirely different kind and unique version than an angry brainwash, corrupted rival turn edge lord counterpart that were already done in SF.
So as a result it is different compare to the likes of other brainwash sf characters that are Bison clone or manipulated by Bison, It doesn’t speak coherent compare to the others.
It cannot be commanded by Bison to handle orders other than pointing out or leading it where Ryu is possibly there. So it can’t to handle a mission or be used for other further goals like the dolls because it’s focus on the urge of beating Ryu. So making it for other things would just want it to go straight forward on destroying Ryu.
Which also makes it very different also from SNH or Kage cased with Ryu and Akuma. That is a negative energy that entices them to fully succumb and kill their opponents as something it desires as if it is an offering to it.
Even if Bison manage to manipulate by it’s desires but it would even try to kill Bison if it would try to make him stop and delay the fight against Ryu. So that it includes everyone who wants to interfere and help out the fight between the two of them.
So it’s also entirely different from the case of Decapre to Cammy, because it solely just an effective only as an anti-Ryu fighter.
It’s reckless, loosely and impulsive without composure and brutal because it’s the only spot that Bison can pull Ken’s strings subconsciously against Ryu because it’s all about defeating Ryu.
This is an interesting take to Violent Ken is not just being brainwash like the others but being forced tremendously to control that it loses a huge part of a human person that Bison need to shut it down much like Blanka in SF live action film or Bison in SFA2 ending but not as a shadaloo army.
This take is to establish a huge difference and a distinction from other brainwash individuals that are manipulated by Psycho Power or those that were under the corruption of SNH in SF universe rather than just Ken being brainwash or being like another Evil Ryu but with Psycho Power.
So it’s not an Evil Ryu version of Ken and also different from the other SF2AM and Sf2 Comic version Violent Ken, It’s more like SVC V-Ken and USF2 if it talks slightly but flesh out that is not a blood thirsty fighter and power hungry individual because those part were discarded to make him standout, unique and be more specific. That a version that cannot be talked with, will not interest and waste time on other things. Because It’s entirely just a Anti-Ryu fighter.
This will also change and separate the cased of process in that illustration if that events were ever been considered canon that it is not being confused or not about Bison re-activating SNH in Ryu or controlling SNH posses Ryu other than brainwashing Ryu to be loosely with his urge being the best fighter and winning against anyone else without SNH influence.
To be honest I don’t like Bison considering Ryu as another body then suddenly another idea comes out like rose, cammy, doll and neo shadaloo. The more interesting is for him if this is re-written of eyeing Ryu to be part of his Shadaloo empire using brainwashing and mind control.
So it also compromised and explains why we end up with Sagat and Sakura is facing ordinary Ryu instead in Alpha 3 before Bison not Evil Ryu
