The point isn’t that the way they balance female characters makes them weak (it doesn’t) the “VagTax” is simply that female characters always have less health in capcom games and when a balance issue is found one of the first ways Capcom chooses to approach nerfing a female character is adjusting their health while male characters it is less often that health is adjusted as a nerf (it DOES happen but it’s not as common).
I think using health to balance is often a poor choice as it doesn’t work terribly well in some cases (depends on the characters tool set, if the character has strong tools overall like Seth or Akuma or Viper then it’s less of an issue to have low health as they can mitigate how often they take damage due to stronger defensive options and/or overwhelmingly good offensive options/mobility)
Generally speaking the VagTax is a non-issue for balance but mostly just a weird sort of bias from Capcom. I mean, how many characters in the history of Capcom fighting games can you think of who had above average health, even if it’s just a little bit? Maybe 4 ever (Tron Bonne (MvC2 and 3)/SheHulk/3rd Strike Makoto/Rogue (MvC2) ) that is all I know of in the 25 years that Capcom has been making dozens fighting games.
Hmm it’s a matter of taste I guess. But I think her chin is fine. I don’t see anything manly in her face, every woman got basically the same chin. I only see manchins in Mortal Kombat and Injustice. =D
True, but don’t forget that Rose will probably get full invincibility on her ex spiral. And her backdash is already amazing.
Cammy and Chun li have better backdashes outside of Rose’s focus backdash. Both have had better reversals that are fully invincible. Tbh I think that because Rose has so many “okay” tools and so many are situational and her damage and stun output really isn’t that great. Having an 11- 14 frame reversal (depending on how they treat ex spiral) won’t change that by much. 50 health would be nice, but what I’m really hoping for is consistent AA options and consistend BnBs…
But I know she won’t get the 50 health because she doesn’t have a man’s chin(po).
Wake-up is horrible for Claw, we agree on that. Now, it can be horrible for half of the cast when they haven’t meter. Rufus, Abel, Zangief, Juri, Dictactor, Guy, Blanka, Rose etc. etc., all of their meterless (non EX) reversals aren’t invincible.
The question of Claw needing or not I-frames on EX-ST is controversial among Claw players. So your point of view can be understood. Regardless of that, I think Capcom just doesn’t want him to have one, and I would be really surprised if they changed their views about it. =)
And I hope you’ll find the best char for you in SF, whether it be Seth or not.
I don’t say his having a weak defense is legit, I say Capcom SFIV devs wanted it to.
Hitboxes of close sHK, crHP and L/M/Hk-ST does obviously reflect this will of negating his AA attempts : hitbox has been willingly reduced not to match with the character’s body/claw, and hurtbox has been extended upwards to ensure up-close attacks would straight beat or at least trade with it. cHP is an obvious illustration of it :
For people wondering how to read this : red box is Vega’s attack, green line is Vega’s hittable area. The mismatch is such that Vega can be hit in empty areas, and cannot attack with half of his claw.
Though I don’t like it as a Claw player, I can understand why they did this : at the contrary of our anti-airs, our grounded attacks have a lot of « priority ». Having similar attacks in the anti-air department would just make him too difficult to approach for non-projectile characters. Think of a non-fireballing Dhalsim. What if his attacks were faster and stronger than yours ?
So it would be difficult to balance. Maybe fixing ST without making him invincible could be an anwer, as, contrary to cHP, it would at least need a charge.
Yep, without a doubt. But it is bad for most chars, once the vortexing player has the read. Think of Infiltration against Daigo’s Ryu.
It’s the same bias that goes towards a relatively skinny guy like Yun having low health imo… Of course a jacked air force sergeant will be able to take more abuse than a 120 lb girl who looks like she barely even works out (Cammy). If any female characters should have 1k it should be Makoto or Chun.
I have a bad feeling about Gen for the new update though. After Xian won EVO a bunch of scrubs therw a hissyfit and made terrible arguments like ‘‘yeah super into ultra is ridiculous nerf it’’ and stuff like that. It’s a little annoying because people have no idea what they’re talking about regarding Gen, they just saw a great player destroying everyone else with a character that requires top execution to maximalise his damage and potential (and on top of that extensive MU knowledge for punishes and crossups). I call it the Akuma effect…
Cammy has better recovery on her backdash. Chun and Rose share the same distance/invincibility
It’s true making her ex spiral a true reversal won’t change much but it will at least invalidates the random hits/grab before her active frames comes out and it was asked from Rose players since Vanilla (so yeah, its been 4 years…). Also remember that they said FULLY invincible. If they really make it that way, it will be an terrific offensive tool as well, going through fireballs mid range like it was nothing. So it might still be not that great as a reversal but it gets buffed offensively in compensation, making her a bit more offensive like in her alpha days. (I seriously would’ve hoped for her to be much more offensive and leave the ex spiral like it is but oh well)
I don’t see how people says Rose’s AAs aren’t good enough or are situational. Her AAs are very good and they cover A LOT of space. The only problems for her are fast dive kicks and Jump ins like Vega’s j.HP. Chun has way less AAs than Rose AND they are situational. Rose has cr.HP/EX soul throw/U2/slide for close range jump ins, far st.MP/U1/slide for mid range jump ins and soul piede/far st.HP/far st.HK/slide for far range jump ins. People need to stop saying that her AAs are weak because they are not 3F DPs. They are excellent and cover tons of range
What I would really like her to have is a true blockstring at mid range with her spiral. Capcom could add +1 blockstun AND hitstun to her cr.mp and make all of her spiral 2 frames faster for that. (Actually I think only 2 frames faster on her spirals woud be enough)
Let’s cut the shit alright. Gen is fine. Xian spent a long-ass time working on this character, competing all over the world, studying his opponents and training like a dog to bring this previously ignored character all the way to the top of Evo.
Xian also says a lot of bullshit regarding tiers, should we listen to that aswell? Gen is fine, honestly if he gets no buffs or nerfs I’d still be very happy. Unfortunately that isn’t going to happen if past situations like these are anything to go by.
Super into Ultra wasn’t even talked about untill Xian won some majors. Now all of a sudden scrubs are looking for reasons to downgrade stuff, forgetting that you first need the super bar (once a game usually) and it still takes a good player to actually hitconfirm it against a good player who knows his shit. Now Tokido had no idea what to do against Gen since all he did was air FB and everytime he did one that could be punished I cringed so hard I pooped my pants…repeatedly.
Cammy’s is 24 Chun li’s backdash distance is 13 and Rose’s is 12(excluding focus backdash which pushes her character a little further back). And all of their total frames amount to 22.
–EX spiral is a great buff. I just hope that they don’t neglect other issues like her meterless combo completion.
–And I didn’t say that Rose’s AAs were situational they just felt inconsistent. And the inconsistency comment is directed at her cr.hp. At least with far HP I expect it to trade and when it doesn’t I’m pleasantly surprised. But cr.hp needs the hitbox to stay with the scarf. If someone neutral jumps right in front of me and I cr.hp sometimes it flat out misses other times it hits. Same for combos sometimes cl.mk > cr. hp hits other times it just flat out whiffs same character too so there isn’t any strange CH issues like different reel back. I’ve switched to exclusively using cl.MK > cr.MP > xx.
– And I don’t think that 3 frame dp comment was for me but since most of this seemed to be directed at me, but I might as well respond. I play Makoto and Rose dude and I’ve never played Ryu, Ken, or shoto with strong meterless reversals in any street Fighter. I’m pretty certain you’re a prominent Rose player so you’re used to her tools. But just try online for one day and pick Juri and cr.MP or makoto and cr.mk or Sakura cr.HP. It’s almost liberating to hit every single jump attempt when compared to Rose.
– Tbh I couldn’t care if they made cr.mp +3 on hit and change nothing on block. Or even if they left it as an untrue blockstring. I just think it sucks to have to spend 1 meter just to complete a combo or else I’d get an 80+25 chip damage “combo”.
If capcom listened to us they probably buffed the hitbox on her anti air because it doesnt cover the entire tip of the scarf.
What they need to do is make her pokes more damaging so she seems like she is a threat when controlling space.
Gen is supposedly getting buffed and I’m happy about it. It really doesn’t matter how powerful he gets (btw he is certainly not top tier atm), you aren’t going to see a bunch of Gens. Why, he’s an old man without a huge fanbase, and he’s easily the hardest character to play.
Philipino champ supposedly said it on his stream along with all the other changes he mentioned. He did say that Xian winning EVO with Gen may cause some of those buffs to be recalled, however.
