Go with either Doom or Hawk or both.
If you plan on playing X-23, just play her on point and drop Spidey instead. They both don’t add much to a team in terms of support so they’re much better played on point.
Thanks.
I’ll probably do Spidey/Tony/Hawkeye. X-23 would just be another tough character for me to learn, I already have my work cut out with Spider-man and Iron-man
Repulsor + Triple or Unibeam + Poison?
Repulsor + Triple, from what everyone else is saying Repulsor and Spidey go so well together.
I’m fairly new to fighting games (only been practicing and really playing for a couple months now) and Spider-man and Iron-Man are higher execution characters so I know I’ve still got a long road ahead of me.
They are both sort of oddball characters that involve you to approach the game in a different way, as opposed to your run of the mill rushdown/zoning characters. IM requires you to know your air normals well and be able to convert into combos from there because that’s where he’ll get most of his stray hits. For everything else, there’s his KK combo(check out the IM threads for this one). He also has pretty good zoning tools with cr.H, Unibeam, and Smart Bomb, so don’t be afraid to play lame in certain matchups since it can be very effective.
Spider-Man can be looked at a couple different ways, but I think the most effective way to treat him is as an agitator that provokes the opponent into playing his game. Try playing a mix of runaway and offensive pressure and wait safely for your opponent to make a mistake, then capitalize for as much damage as you can. Spidey can’t do any chip, so his combo damage is the main factor in how scary he can be to opponents. Repulsor Blast gives him a free web throw to the corner on pretty much all his main combos for more damage and perfect positioning in case you want to go for resets and such. Then to top it off, IM has a really easy TAC infinite that can confirm kills off his more scaled combo starters. Hawkeye’s arrows are excellent for ground control and not giving the opponents assists a chance to shine. I also really like them because they’re easy to confirm into combos from 1/2 screen away or more.
Hey, a question popped in my head a day or two ago after chatting in the stream thread for a bit about disruptor assist and I’ve been thinking about it the whole time since then. I was originally discussing how I would ultimately love to play a Spidey/Magneto team for the strong DHC synergy and the UWT guard break(currently the only known guard break that can be 100% inescapable/fool-proof iirc), but I remember doing some testing with Spidey and disruptor last year and never found a good way to use the assist well at all aside from assist counter-call(which is imo equivalent to no assist synergy). This has been the main reason why I have not bothered pairing the two and usually filled my team with Spidey’s tried and true partner, Doom, but something about my view of the game now(possibly influenced by the recently discussed web throw loop) makes me think there may be some way to make the pairing solid or even optimal. I’m probably going to test this out regardless but before I isolate myself in the lab this weekend I have a question for you all:
Does anyone know of some reliable uses Spidey has for disruptor? As in, some that would make me pick disruptor over unibeam, or plasma beam, or Hawkeye/Task arrows?
Hyper grab to UWT is not fool proof. Different pushblocks timings will still mess it upjust like most of the guard break setups. Your opponents’ matchup inexperience will be your best tool with guard breaks. I use Triple arrows and though it has solid ground control and durability with the right amount of speed and hsd, its one weakness is being unable to go through characters.
For those who say that Spidey doesn’t need a beam, they shouldn’t be having problems playing with emd at all. That said, there is no way Spidey can reliably confirm off of any stray emd hits and if you do, hsd scaling has gone up already because Mag’s emd nerf from vanilla. What it does is complement Spidey’s runaway game fairly well if you’re patient enough.
Pushblock does not mess up Magneto’s set up at all, primarily due to the way super-cancelled hyper grav works. The blockstun is over as soon as you super, so if they pushblocked you will already be able to see it during the superflash. You can easily adjust timing in that case, especially considering the fact that Magnetic Tempest has such long startup. The reason Iron Man’s can be messed up is that the period right at the end of the super is where you’re timing the DHC, which would make any normal person unable to react if pushblock is used.
The tech has already been tested thoroughly by some here, myself included and you will have to react to some pushblocks to get the guard break to work making it not 100% reliable.
Oh, if that’s all you mean then sure you will have to react with every one of them. The difference is in how much time you have. For most setups, it’s basically a guess as to what the opponent will do in retaliation(usually involving an XF cancel when things don’t go according to plan). What I was saying was that Magneto’s setup allows for a very reasonable amount of reaction time, so one who practices the setup even a little will be able to look for the opponent’s reaction during the superflash of Magneto’s super and do an appropriate DHC/timing adjustment. Doom’s setup allows for this too(I’ve been practicing/improving the superjump -> j.l setup for months now, and got it to be pretty legit/non-gimmicky at this point), and I think a couple other characters that can set up the guard break can as well. The real problem with the other setups is that they involve using a normal, which can make them vulnerable to throws if it’s not done perfectly meaty(which is pretty difficult to do consistently). Magneto’s setup doesn’t even need that, which is why I said it was fool-proof. As long as the player can react during Magneto’s superflash, it’s literally impossible to escape being TODed.
A slight miss in the guard break timing and you’re looking at minus 2 bars and a dead character or a wasted XF. If it were as good as what everyone thought initially before testing, you’d probably see more of it but the sad thing is it’s not that great. You’ll find tighter UWT resets more useful and less risky.
Eh, I’ll have to check out the Mags/Spidey setup again to be sure, but I don’t think it’s that easy to mess up. I think the real reason you don’t see the guard break setup stuff is not because of the risks, but no one plays Spidey/Mags, or most of the characters that can set it up for that matter. If I can find an effective way out of the Mags setup this weekend, I’ll simply call Doom’s the best and stick to that since his can be made safe by just not DHCing at all. It’s easy to look at the costs and deem a setup “not worth it”, but some of the best effects of having and using the setup regularly don’t even come from the setup itself. For example, with Doom’s setup the only ways to get out are to mash grab or invincible super. With that, I can just as easily opt not to go for the setup and catch my opponent mashing H in anticipation. This creates a VERY effective incoming mixup which can be made safe and reliable in various ways. I still think the Magneto one is inescapable period, but I’ll be just fine with Doom’s if Magneto doesn’t work out.
Well, you’ll see once you test it out yourself anyway. I’m pretty sure you know this but UWT DHC is not instant so if your timing is off and the opponent drops close to the ground, the DHC will not work. Doom’s setup isn’t that much different because you have to do a quick meaty jL xx photon array which isn’t good if your opponent gets hit with jL and if you delay it a bit, your opponent will land before UWT hits. The problem with UWT guard breaks is that it is unsafe and isn’t/can’t be multi-layered your opponent’s guess is almost as good as yours.
Nope. Doom’s setup is much better than you think, and the UWT DHC is not that hard to time either. Yes, I am aware that if the opponent is close to the ground they will land before UWT, but on most of the guard break setups you can DHC well before that. Anyways, let me explain the Doom OS:
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From the corner, do a super jump up-back into j.l xx Photon Array(the timing should be the same everytime)
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If you mistime the Photon Array for whatever reason, just don’t DHC(Doom will be safe after PA and the match is in neutral)
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If the j.l was normal blocked(you have the whole superflash time to determine this) DHC into UWT
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If the j.l was pushblocked before the startup of Photon Array(this will push Doom backwards) DHC into UWT(you can delay the DHC slightly and the UWT will land)
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If the j.l was pushblocked after the startup of Photon Array(this is hard for the opponent to time, but if it happens Doom will not move) don’t DHC
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If the j.l hits, DHC into Crawler Assault. What happens here is that Doom will release 6 finger lasers upon DHCing to Spider-Man, who will hit with CA. After the opponent lands, Spidey is able to web-zip otg and, depending on the assists, get a TOD combo off the hit. The “BnB” I use for this is:
otg -> S + call Jam Session -> st.m xx st.h(JS hits) xx m web throw(to corner) -> dash to corner -> st.h xx l spider sting~bite(this uses the ground bounce) -> jump towards corner -> call Hidden Missiles + airdash + S(this is to get to the ground as quickly as possible) -> 1 missile otgs -> m webthrow(out of corner) -> missiles hit + l webthrow(to corner) -> CA
It might seem complicated, but this is actually a pretty simple combo that leads to about 900k, with a DHC into Doom able to add to that. This whole process took only about an hour to commit to muscle memory, and I’ve gotten good enough at watching the PA superflash where I was able to land this setup online a few times(may not mean much, but I’m personally proud that I got it to work with this game’s crappy netcode). Right now the only issues it has are the possibility of getting grabbed out of the j.l and the fact that you needed to rely on Doom’s TAC infinite in order to get the meter for all this, and that is now not necessarily true if you can do the web throw loop. I think with tech that has potential like this, instead of writing it off for whatever faults it has we should be trying to patch up those faults as best we can. Hopefully I can get this setup even tighter in the future(and possibly account for late pushblock better).
You can write all the stuff you like about what you can do and when to do it but it will all be different once you really get to play it. I am not writing you or anything off and if anything I have made a lot of Spidey tech and would like to get him more air time but realistically speaking, the guard break tech is good but not great. You’re likely to get some mileage using it but having multi-layered incoming setups without risking meter is still way better.
That setup flowchart wasn’t something I just thought up one day and assumed it worked. That came from numerous matches going for the setup, and my successes or failures while trying. I know no one here is going to believe a word I say until they see me do it on stream or something, but I promise you I’ve been using the formula for months now and I can do this in a real match vs. any player and react appropriately on reaction 90% of the time. The only times this has not worked for me are most of my online attempts(due to mistiming the Photon Array) and rare times when I’ll get a random plasma beam instead of a sj.l. Regardless, spending 2 meters is a very good price for not letting the opponent play and it’s worked too often for me to stop using it for “risks”, especially when there are much more costly setups out there that work way less often but are considered common and legitimate (take the “Doom/Ammy bomb” for example).
While I do actually agree with most of what Kiyaaking is saying I have to disagree with the Doom portion of it. At the same time Mags has another setup as well. Vergil is also probably the safest hardest to get out of because of his ability to follow his round trip. Also Storms is more full proof than Dooms because of its larger window to DHC Hit block or push block it’s quite possible to react to any variation without much effort.
Xero, you say Storm has a better one? Storm is one of the few characters I haven’t done any testing with Spidey so I’m not doubting you, but what is Storm’s setup? I’m having a hard time picturing how Storm can set it up to account for hit and still set Spidey up for a damaging/TOD combo. In the meantime, I guess I’ll have to find some way to record myself demonstrating the Doom setup since everyone seems to think it’s unsafe, or doesn’t allow the player to react to the opponent during the 30 or so frames Doom is shouting “YOU HAVE NO HOPE!”
That’s because with a late pushblock which is still possible after flash Dooms lasers are right on top of the opponent. That’s the biggest part to it all
Yeah, I know late pushblock messes up the setup, but I already can account for that by just not DHCing and Doom is the only guard break character I can think of that has a safe setup super. Also, it’s not like late pushblock is easy for that setup. Someone would have to have extremely good execution to get it consistently and even then I can either delay the super or just not go for the setup sometimes against people who have execution that good. It’s not like I’m saying this is 100% guaranteed every match, but it’s definitely a setup strong enough to be used on a regular basis.
Edit: On another note, I got a chance to test out the Magneto setup again. It’s a little harder than I thought before to time correctly, but not that hard overall. If I were to practice it as much as I have the Doom one, I could time it correctly almost every time no problem. The crappy part is that because disruptor is so incompatible with Spidey I can’t really use it to get an extension. This isn’t that big of a problem if I get the UWT, I can just use my other assist, but there’s no good way to make a damaging combo if the opponent takes the hit without using XF. I personally think that’s not a good idea, especially when you consider that most top tier teams run XF comeback characters like Vergil and Strider on anchor. If I have to use my XF early to make the setup work on the second character, the anchor has a better chance of a reverse OCV and I just don’t feel comfortable knowing that. In short: I’m sticking to Doom. He makes sure I get the kill cleanly.