How do you even get close safely and effectively without projectile durability support in the first place? :h: swing, you can’t be serious? That’s even slower than the both zip and air dash and there’s a chance you can get grabbed out of it.
I’d say you’re fine playing against Wolverine but if you’re faced with a team with decent movement and projectile durability you’re going to have a difficult time; Mags with plasma for example. Spidey beats Mags as per the matchup but Spidey will have a hard time playing against keepaway Mags/Nova + beam support because of his lacking chip game especially without some horizontal support.
I know the scenario may be hypothetical but it sounds as if you can disregard Spidey’s heavy need for horizontal control which beam best covers. Beam assist covers some of Spidey’s weakness in quick long reach, chip damage and full screen damage/lockdown. Playing without one just isn’t as efficient. You obviously can play without beam but if you think that playing without one is just as good, saying he doesn’t need one, I’d like to know how.
Vajra as a combo extender isn’t bad at all. As for a neutral assist it’s mediocre at best. Spidey can convert off it but he has no tools to abuse it nor to keep it safe; no left/right teleport, no seismo/tridash pressure or random hit convert to OTG ToD.
@kookymanus2099 - Yeah, I guess I see your point that vajra can be counter by assists or by the point character, but now that I think about it, Vajra shouldn’t be called all the time. Of course it is easy to counter if you just throw it out there. It is probably best if you use it in specific situations where it would be a risk for the opponent to try to counter it. For example, if the opponent is a bit closer than midscreen and is between normal jump and superjump height, you could call vajra then do :h: spider-sting. If they block it, you can zip cancel and vajra will keep them in blockstun, if they get hit, vajra will hit them and you can combo off of it. Idk, its just an idea I haven’t actually tested that out yet.
@Raoh - You’re right that spider-man can’t abuse it like other characters can, but if you have the right team you can get ToD’s after it with TAC infinites and resets. For example, my team, Spidey/Doom/Strider would give you access to ToD’s, plus you get plasma beam which is a great neutral assist.
The only guaranteed or close enough to ToDs I can think of are sword/lightning loops DHC, although I’m not sure if Spidey can build enough meter for Vergil/Zero and with Spidey’s 1-frame MS DHC glitch.
thanks for the replies, kind of needed this type of info to build the right team for spidey
in what way does spidey excel the most? run? rush? combination of both? I play a really offensive style with spidey\dante. It feels like he’s an awesome rush down character but this is the first time I’ve ever really tried to play him.
spideys top 5 tools? can be anything spidey is capable of. uwt, c.m, alpha counter etc…
By himself, I’d say he’s more of a runaway character with decent rushdown. It will get harder to open people up once they get used to playing you unlike say, Wolv + tatsu or Dorm + emd who have strong left/rights. That said, Spidey’s rushdown is quite solid, he has an instant overhead normal in jM but you have to be close for it to hit, double/triple overheads or empties to low with zip, sting overhead, quick-low dash unders, etc. Defensively, Spidey can run the timer very well unless matched against pressure vajra assist, can do blind assist calls by wall jumping or doing sting xx up zip, strong and relatively safe anti-air/anti-rushdown with L sting, invincible post flash hyper in CA and he’s quite hard to get a good clean hit on. I’m pretty sure there’s more you’ll find. His problem is that he lacks a chip game to complement his strong runaway game so you’ll be forced to do some rushdown at some point to get some damage in.
@shoultz I’d highly recommend learning to rush down w/ him cuz that tactic in itself makes Spidey scary. Learn how to evade using webzip to get outta situations that u can’t back dash or jump out of because of the angles webzip grants to Spidey that normal chrcs can’t go.
Best tool in Spidey’s arsenal is spidersting, preferably the lp version. Time n time again it catches opponents off guard n helps get pressure off Spidey. Plus ppl start being a bit more defensive after getting caught by it so u have already mind f**k ur opponent.
That’s true, but TAC’s and those kinds of resets have such a high success rate that its barely a risk at that point. You can also x-factor during the combo and you can probably kill if you have two meters or if the character has low health.
I agree that spider-sting is spider-man’s best tool, it is an amazing DP that you can get pretty decent damage off of with the right assists. I honestly think that if web ball had more durability it would be up because web ball + wave/plink dash is pretty strong already. It would force the opponent to either block it or jump, and if they jump you can UWT if you are confident enough to go for that or just spider-sting. Unless they are vergil, then they slash through it.
@Ashketchup I don’t have any experience with Dante but I think jam session and vajra would be a bit redundant I guess, because jam session is already a great anti-air, better than vajra imo. I think weasel shot would be better because you would have both horizontal and vertical coverage, but I’m not expert so you should try it out for yourself.
I’ve been playing Spider-Man and its insanely fun. Ultimately my dream team would be Spidey/Strange(bolts)/Dante(Jam) but I cant seem to find a way to get spidey to do IP loops. any help? I’m playing Spidey/Dante/Doom for now. Any help is nice.
@ClutchCombo You can do it by DHCing from MS in the corner. If you do the DHC from sj height (ex. sj series H swing xx MS) it will be easier to pull the loop DHC off. You have to shorten Spidey’s combo before the DHC so that Strange’s launcher doesn’t start off with too much HSD.
Doom and Dante are solid teammates for Spidey, just like most of the cast.
@Mr.PaVy-RD Yes, it’s workable. Even in that order. You’re fine as long as Spidey’s on point.
Outside of a few punishes DHCing into FoF loops isn’t worth it. You are inevitably going to burn three bars to kill a character in a situation where you could kill with two.
Strange loops are strong yes but the benefits to them is the extra meter that comes with the damage. Burning bar then wasting bar just to build the bar that you will then turn around and burn to finish is very wasteful. You’re better off learning how to do FoF off of a MS punish.
Hey guys. I’m a long time Spidey main(since MvC1 on Dreamcast) who recently decided to join the forums. I have a lot to say, but I’ll make it as concise as possible. I’ll just say a few quick things about me first:
-Though I just made an account, I’ve been closely following/lurking the forums for years
I’ve played and loved fighting games all my life(since I was 4 years old)
I have seen and used almost every piece of tech for Spiderman that you all have put out for this game and follow discussions on the current state of the web-head all the time
Though I’m not always busy(I obviously have enough time to go into training mode for a couple hours on weekends) I’ve never found a convenient opportunity to participate in tournaments(I am aware that there are some successful tourney-goers here and tourney experience is a factor in the validity of some of the theory discussed here, so I will take that into account when discussing with you all)
I’ve put in some SERIOUS lab time with this game overall, particularly Spiderman teams(about a couple hundred hours total of testing and practicing)
With all that said, I decided to join the forums because I believe I have some stuff to contribute when it comes to this character. I have a solid understanding of his strengths, weaknesses, best partners, strategies, matchups, etc. and I wanted to share some of my views with you all since I think some of my opinions are quite different than some of you.
For those who don’t want to read the intro stuff, here’s something I wanted to discuss: I currently run the team Spiderman/Dr. Doom/Amaterasu because I believe it’s not only the best possible Spiderman team overall but also a potential top-tier/end-game team. Now I know right off the bat some are going to write me off and call me crazy, but what are your thoughts on this team?
if you play missiles, you have no beam but you get a combo extender.
if you play beam, you have no combo extender but now you have a neutral assist
those are pretty much the 2 things about spidey pie that seems to fuck me up the most when I pick it. Spidey needs a beam I feel like but he also needs a combo extender. To my knowledge, spidey can’t use amaterasu at the end of his combos for extenders right?
since spidey\amaterasu is rather great on mixups, its only natural that doom would be a choice here logically.
I’m on the spidey\dante wagon ATM, its by far his best assist. Not only will it create block stun but you get a nice DHC that’s safe, pretty good damage output 950-1.1, and helps out spidey @ SJ heights when the opponent is trying to move up there. That is his hardest area to control.
I don’t think Spidey needs a beam. He has an awkwardly high and floaty jump (which sucks for confirms, but is great for avoiding whatever ground-level crap your opponent is doing) and his main method of getting in vs characters that can put out durability on the ground is to simply zip over it. I do agree about a combo extender, however. Spidey can put out decent damage solo, but since he usually needs to use the corner for his higher damage stuff and he does almost zero chip(thus making his scare factor very low) he needs to get his damage in when he can. Along with a combo extender, I think the other assist Spidey can get mileage out of is a good lockdown assist.
I also spent some time with Spidey/Dante when testing assist use. Jam Session gives every character in the game something to work with, and with Spidey that’s no exception. The best thing JS gives Spidey is some control at SJ height, like you said. However, I feel that Spiderman doesn’t really need a wall-like assist like JS when he’s perfectly good at staying away from his opponent. Also, from an offensive standpoint, JS’s lockdown does not hold opponents in place long enough for Spidey to work a good high/low mixup when he’s not already right next to them(his midscreen mixup game is one of the offensive areas he needs the most help with, so this is important) and using JS early in combos scales damage pretty bad.
Amaterasu has the longest lockdown of any assist and Spidey actually has really good pressure options(using zips and a combination of normals and zip-cancelled specials, he can stay in someone’s face for a while), which makes for a perfect combination when setting up for high/lows. Defensively, however, it’s not as useful as JS would be since Ammy is fairly vulnerable unless Spidey crosses the opponent up everytime he calls her(which gets predictable and easily stoppable). The one thing I think that makes up for this shortcoming is the fact that Spidey is one of the best characters at counter-punishing opponents that try to punish assist calls. Often times I believe that calling assists out on purpose to get punished can be a legitimate strategy for Spidey to capitalize on.
tl;dr: Spidey is good without a beam, but needs assists to help with damage and lockdown. Jam Session covers both to some extent, but not quite good enough in either imo. Sorry for the gigantic posts. I’ll probably have less to say once I’ve been here for a while.
While I feel Ammy’s assist is unexplored for Spidey, I can tell you now you will get more mileage with Dante’s assist overall. While Spidey can avoid a lot of stuff, his unique ability to call assist while running away makes Jam Session that much more of a threat as he can confirm off of it at SJ height into a full combo that allows Dante to tag in for the meter and reset options. Ammy is only good on the ground and as far as zipping around while she’s out most of that can still be negated before she fully locks down unfortunately. As for his jump and hit confirming I would say you should work on that more. He has hit confirms from various places on the screen. I made sure of that.