I don’t think Kusoru lost yet aside from SBO which was against JWong and 2/3 and probably some qualifiers. I like Dieminion’s team since it’s akin to his AE Guile but as per team synergy and flowchart for Marvel, I personally think it needs a bit of fixing. The reason why both Die and Kusoru are good compared to Mame, Abegen, Frutsy and other players are not necessarily only because of their character picks but rather because they’re both very solid players. Die is one of the best players of US AE as per his results while Kusoru has won SBO before for TvC. Same could be said with JWong and ChrisG side teams being able to win despite being quirky.
I like Marvel because it’s a sandbox game. You never know what’s going to happen because teams are composed of 3 characters with a choice of 3 assists. This is the same reason why I think ChrisG’s team is so successful. Aside from his solid fundamentals, his team (as soon as he gets going) shuts most of the casts’ options to get their game started. What’s good about it is that he doesn’t need to touch you to get his flowchart started. This idea is the same with Zero and Abegen’s team where when they get the first hit, you might as well get ready for the next game. Momentum is an integral part of the game and getting it to work in your favor is essential to winning.
Now what has this got to do with Spidey, his team and his matchups? Ideally, you want to get a hit leading to a TOD to get your game started and this can be done more reliably with soundly constructed team; teams that address Spidey’s strengths and weaknesses . You have to face the fact that not all teams may work, but I think that only through experience and keen observance will anyone be able to fully understand why and what adjustments/changes need to be done. Even the best teams on paper have matchup problems and through adjusting and switching up will it be easier to get things going for your team against theirs.
Yeah that did sound quite pretentious but again I have to kindly disagree. The fact that you decide to use him as a sacrificial lamb places you in a mindset where you think he can’t handle certain shit so you probably don’t bother to try. He really truly does offer more than you are giving him but do not get that mixed up as me saying he is the best in the game. If you are wanting him to play and act like Magneto then you’d probably be better off just learning Magnus since you’ll only disappoint yourself otherwise.
So are you actually going to explain what he has to offer or are you not? I’m curious because I’d like to read what other special purposes you think he has on a team besides being a good point character that can be sacrificed to the blood gods. Please regale me with your talk of theory fighter and the like.
Also as far as me “not trying to handle certain shit” your talking to the guy who got second at a major with a team that effectively had no neutral game assist. I’ll take that comment as a joke considering I actually play against people and I’ve probably explored handling “certain shit” more intensively then you have. Then again I could be wrong like I said before embellish so I can read and understand appropriately.
By the way I wanted to switch to magneto not because I think he is in any way similar to spidey but because you know he’s a good character? (whoah who would have thought?)
I wrote out a big long post, but then stopped. Just going to say that I mostly agree with Raoh and Xero on this, and that if you’re committed to winning to the point that you’d rather be close-minded and not experiment, you’re playing the wrong character anyway. Pick a sword guy or two or three. They all work together anyway.
I will say that this game and character is far from being completely drawn out, and that you’re probably gonna be blown up for not looking at what this character can do. Regardless of whether you got second (re: first loser) at a major in May or not. All about that “what have you done for me lately,” brah. Doing well at a major =/= know everything about the character – plenty of people know what this character can do at high level play.
I hate the “not on stream = doesn’t exist” mentality that has taken over fighting games lately.
All Brightside is saying is that Spidey needs a team with assists which would allow him to effectively rushdown, control neutral and extend combos for a TOD while at the same time being independently strong as a two man team. I can’t quote myself posting this idea before but no need for it since that’s essentially how teams should be made, especially for Spidey whose assists don’t really give much to any team. This is also my reasoning which is why I run Hawkeye and Doom as my other characters because they can be effective independently of Spidey, similar to Bright’s Dorm and Doom.
Now for the part where quirky characters can’t help you win a tourney because they’re gimmicky, it will be the case if you’re running let’s say Spidey, Tron and Chun Li. However, if you have chars that fall in the category of helping Spidey while being able to work by themselves low tier or high, it gives you more of a chance to get farther in tourney. What is important is that you have a sort of flowchart of things you should do whenever whatever happens. The quirky character part is quite subjective but here are a few 2nd and 3rd chars that may work with Spidey but aren’t necessarily both high on the tier list: (Nemesis, IM, Thor)+(Sent or Strange), etc.
Marvel’s still relatively new and characters and team compositions still have to be fleshed out. I remember T.Hawk in ST where he was bottom tier for 10 years then suddenly became one of the top picks as of late. Not sure though if Marvel’s going to stay that long and if players are willing to put time into the game to squeeze every bit of tech for every char.
So is anyone going to bring up some actual points or are you guys just going to keep telling me your Storm/X-23 (lol no gimmicks here)/Nemesis/Hsien-Ko teams work because you are super creative and think out of the box? Roah pretty much summed up my reasons why I think spiderman can only function in that certain role at higher levels. Yet all I keep hearing is “naw man you just don’t know”.
Also Thor and Nemesis? Let’s be honest they will never be good or viable.
Together, no. They can work with a few characters but will eventually lose to some matchups, just like other teams.
It’s just like Wesker, everyone thought he’d be god tier forever but now you can hardly see him place top. He didn’t become weak, everyone just got used to playing against him. The same will happen with other characters, you’ll get used to playing against them that you eventually be able to get your stuff to work. In my opinion, this may be the reason why ChrisG doesn’t prefer long games.
This is why I don’t mind others picking weird teams as long as they’re built properly.
First no one said anything about mags being like Spidey. I was saying you’d be better off not disappointing yourself by trying to play Spidey like mags. Second, I recognize you got second and I sent you a PM congratulating you on it but when I can go to a tournament, and people from your scene (Chicago if I remember right) tell me, the online warrior, they’ve never seen Spidey do this or was capable of doing that then I can only imagine what they thought he was limited to. You can take that as a shot fired if you want to but I’m just saying.
As for points, Spidey’s strengths do depend a lot on his teammates. I never said otherwise but I assume you want me to tell you what he has going for himself. Like his size, mobility, his pokes in s:l: c:m: and c:h: for punishing. Anti airs ranging from c:m: s:m: s:h: :s: :l: spider sting/bite web throw (distance of course) air throws for the predictable and UWT. Good air to air normals plus zip cancels to convert damage and escape when needing to. Lets also not forget web balls durability that while slow and avoidable people often forget how much 5 points of durability can be useful when backed by other horizontal assist which more durability. You also have the fact he can build meter relatively fast so he’s self sufficient but at the same time he doesn’t have a problem still netting damage needed to kill. Lastly he still very much has the options available for teams like setting up double TACs for those team combinations reliant on TACs. Attacks that freely let you tag into team mates to have them finish combos (Dante) or start their game plan (ie Dorm, Morrigan, Felicia, Phoenix, etc).
Now of course there are those who just do it better and are a lot scarier at it and he does have a hard time in certain cases this I agree. No shit everyone has a weakness. But to say he should only be played with a certain select characters to be good is really really stretching it when you aren’t really doing much with him to begin with.
I tried using that team before. I just run and spam dark harmonizer until I can flowchart with Morri and Doom. It’s good but I just didn’t get to like it that much and it’s also pretty annoying for your opponent.
lol Why would I take that as shots fired? I’m assuming you are talking about SB considering that’s the only thing I would imagine Chicago players going to recently. Gratz on impressing people in casuals or while you were losing in pools. Which ever it was good job I’m sure those kara-spider sting combo’s made the gawkers go nuts, they do look cool after all.
Wait wait wait… Do you think I think he’s a bad character? I never said that. Everything you said just reinforces my point. I’m not talking about his merits as a point character. I know spiderman is good I wouldn’t use him if I thought he was terrible.
What I’m talking about is his merits as an actual teammate and his ability to synergize well with others. My whole argument was pretty much Spiderman doesn’t play well with others so your 2nd/3rd slot characters have to be a strong independent unit that gives Spiderman all the tools he needs. Due to these circumstances letting him die on point is mostly beneficial to your overall team because your 2nd/3rd character don’t rely on him for anything anyways but the extended X-factor. Sooooo teams that incorporate spiderman should reflect this idea.
those characters don’t provide anything off screen either but theres nothing wrong with that. you still see multiple team combinations with those characters.
talking about characters that don’t play well with others, phoenix. she doesnt allow you to use meter, you have to do different combos than normal to try to gain extra meter. you still see multiple teams running phoenix with success.
All of Spidey’s merits to a team are set up on point. How did you miss that? If you are talking about assist then yes his assist aren’t that great, I’ll agree there but if that’s the only thing you are going on then that’s all you have. Like I said earlier, meter build, safe entry for characters to raw tag in, double TAC mixups, and mobility all help out the team. There are only a handful of characters in the game that have great assist and are great on point as well. Too many characters in this game have good assist but are attached to “bad” characters but that’s all open to opinion because you do see those teams work.
the main difference i see between zero/viper/wolv and spidey is that snapping spidey to the back is a legitimate way to defeat a spiderman team as he is a lacking anchor, whereas a lot of players would rather just kill zero/viper/wolv (unless they are going for the anchor, like vergil/strider/phoenix)
even so, zero/viper/wolv xf3 are much scarier than spidey xf3
Actually, I never tested this and I know some of yall know but can you web zip cancel Spidey’s crossover counters? I should probably do that to reclaim my order if I survive the incoming mixup when people snap in my anchor.
You can, but it’s pretty situational that you’d want to use it outside of the corner and you lose any potential invincibility.
Good to know though, especially if you have the CC combo down off Spider-Sting.
Also, another reason to run Hawkeye – he’s one of the few characters Spider-Man actually gives support to. Can’t approach Clint from the air due to the threat of a 14 frame UWT (as opposed to 29 frame, via Scatter Shot DHC UWT), and having an invincible CC for when he has to block a blockstun monster ala Zero/Vergil, or face an unblockable is seriously helpful. Limiting options as far as mobility goes allows you to better place your arrows for chip and big damage when people get out of line. The latent threat of a very fast UWT off of anything you can get a poison tip to gives him killing power. That’s without getting into tricky setups (gimmicks if you prefer – w/e, they’re effective and have multiple options to go through) that these two have together. They cover each other’s holes as a point character pretty well too. Just have to be vigilant in your decisions.
