When 3s was made, I believe they wanted to have all 3 Supers equally effective…
It turns out of course, that everyone only has one best super to use, 2 at most.
Maybe Ryu is the exception and does have all 3 superarts equally effective.
There, the end of thread.
So all that big ass paragraph said to me was that it’s possible to use EXs without a meter charged… my response is, how does that make any super better? All 3 supers have that strategy, so your explanation says nothing about denjin. I’ll even do you one better, i can just win without EX moves OR supers, just poking and specials! then all 3 supers for every character are perfectly equal. Yay!
That’s what you don’t seem to be getting, sure anyone can justify using denjin. But your only justifiying how to play ryu with less options, which we could do normally. What your missing, and what’s most important, is what ryu GAINS with denjin, that he doesn’t with the other two supers.
And then you just summarize the entrie problem of using denjin by saying “Oh when he has enough stun i’ll use denjin”, like it magically hits the opponent on command, perhaps you missed the posts talking about how the denjin setups don’t work as well. You continue to ignore the IMPORTANT information, and just ramble on about stuff that has nothing to do with denjin. That is why it’s not good, and that is why your probably not good either, listen some more and perhaps we’ll see your ryu (or even your denjin ryu!) in some tournaments, or just keep rambling here and learn nothing, your choice.
I agree with a lot of what you said. I don’t even want to jump into the discussion of which super is better than the next.
I just want to state, as my personal opinion, that Ryu’s Shinshoryuken is one of my most hated supers. Talk about laying my Aegis on Ryu in the corner, and I’m still the one who’s scared. Now that’s power. :mad:
Add to the fact that there is no such thing as a midscreen unblockable setup against a SA2 Ryu with full bar.
do not EVER try to poke /pressure with ex lunge kicks lol, youll eat just about anything your opponent wants to hit you with when they block :fury:
Well, I will say this. Playing with Denjin Ryu is not a really BAD choice, but just make up something with him that we haven’t seen and maybe it will work to your advantage. I have tried to make up different ways to win with that super art, but although the stun meter is great, it can put you at a disadvantage.
example… say for instance you are right in front of your opponent and you choose to set him up with denjin. You do fireball and supercancel into a denjin and most times when you spin the joystick and release, I can only get 3 fireballs to charge before they realize that they need to parry and so forth. Now if you are fighting someone who has a super that can move forward…Ken SA3, Chun Li SA2, etc, then you are short. Cause they can actually take the super hit and return the favor.
But try and work with SA3 and develop your own setups. Talking on this thread makes we want to try something new. Oh well talk to you later.
Shin
Can I put it more plainly when I say that what Ryu gains from Denjin is a short super meter therefore allowing him to use super and EX moves. Take a person who plays with shin shoryuken or shinkuu hadoken and then count how many times they use EX moves when they actually do a super then count how many with denjin. I’m sure denjin will win that little node. Basically, Ryu has a very hard time winning without using EX moves so it only goes to say that it should be easier for him to win if he can do more EX moves. Just b/c a super bar is longer doesn’t mean you can do EX moves more frequently it only says that to do a super you must abstain from doing more EX moves which like I said before hurts Ryu. Do you get it now? God, it’s as simple as pie what I’m explaining here.
The closer you are to charging a super gives you a better chance of actually using that super doesn’t it? Yes. Ok, after using an EX move Ryu is “usually” closer to charging a super with denjin than any other super he has. So that means it gives you a better chance of actually using that super doesn’t it? Yes. The only exception is when you’ve already charged most of the bar with shin shoryuken or shinkuu hadoken in which case you had to NOT be using EX moves which is bad for Ryu right? Yes. Now come on and try and argue with this. Be my guest if you want to look stupid. It’s common sense guys.
Another thing. You act like I’ve posted all I know about denjin. So am I to assume that all people post everything they know right out the gate. You must be saying yes to yourself right now. Ok, then I see you know absolutely nothing b/c you’ve posted nothin’ strategy related on this thread. Or is there stuff you know that you just won’t tell. Come on I’m beggin’ ya give up the knowledge. Please. Pretty please with cherries on top. I’ll even put whip cream on it if you like. Please.
locust:
Anybody who seriously thinks Denjin is not a good super is smokin’ crack. But it is Ryu’s worst super for several important reasons:
ie.
c. forward: punish whiffs with c. forward xx SA1.
c. short: c. short x 3 xx SA1 or c. short x 2 xx SA2.
close s. forward: meaty close s. forward linked into SA1/2.
>+strong: >+strong linked into SA1/2.
UOH: UOH linked into SA1/2
Denjin basically limits Ryu’s offense tremendously. He is not nearly as scary as before.
This means that ppl can take many more chances against a Denjin Ryu then they could against a SA1/2 Ryu. What are you going to do if you get an opening? S. fierce xx fierce Shoryuken? Please.
Nothing is gauranteed. This is by far the biggest flaw in a Denjin Ryu’s offensive plan. Even if you setup the Denjin perfectly, it is NEVER EVER gauranteed. What if your opponent red parries by accident? Oh well, too bad, super wasted.
Fear factor. Nobody is scared of fucking up against a Denjin Ryu. If they know the setups and they can parry well, they really have nothing much to fear. Now play a Shin-Sho Ryu and tell me you don’t hesitate 20x more then against a Denjin one.
Some of the things you’ve said are valid points. But denjin can combo and if someone misses a dragon punch you can do an EX lunge kick combo and get most of your level back or just do another combo like d+FP–>FK Hurricane Kick. Both do great stun and give you lots of level which means you can possibly dizzy them with a 2 hit denjin setup. Also denjin can throw red parries off which isn’t to say that it won’t get parried everynow and again but that makes it even harder on top of the fact that it is already hard to red parry.
Most people don’t realize that LP or MP shoryuken xx denjin cannot be tech rolled which means Ryu is safe and gets to use okizeme in order to raise the opponent’s stun meter to dizzy. If you dizzy with that combo you can usually get enough level by doing d+MP 3 times and then maybe a d+FP that the jump in FP or FK, standing or ducking FP will give you enough for an EX lunge kick combo. Another thing which never ever comes up is the re-dizzy death. If you dizzy someone without using denjin but you have the level 9 times outta 10 you can re-dizzy opponents with normal size stun meters which basically ensures their death.
You will hesitate 20 times more against a shin Ryu than a denjin Ryu. That’s not always bad though. Lull the opponent into a false sense of security and then when you get one good combo on them after a parry or somethin’ then they might just find themselves eating a lvl 2 or lvl 3 denjin and then another high damage combo. The use of constant EX moves is on your side though which is what I prefer with denjin b/c they only become truly scared of Ryu with shin if it is charged. That takes a long time. You can get bowled over in a heart beat by not using EX moves with Ryu and then again you can bowl someone over in a heart beat if everything falls into place with denjin. That’s why I like it. I can see how people don’t but I do. I play with shinkuu hadoken and shin shoryuken every now and again. I like to play super for super and things like that.
I tell you what I hate. That’s folks that use shin shoryuken and juggle with hadoken instead of lunge kick or hurricane kick. What’s the point? If it doesn’t kill them then you might as well take advantage of the fact that they can’t tech roll it with okizeme tactics. Wouldn’t you agree? I also hate how shin shoryuken looks on SvC chaos. He can’t even juggle after it. Ryu’s still a bad@$$ on that game though.
If you’re playin Ryu’s that still juggle with Hadoken…lol…well u know what i’m gonna say so I won’t bother. Personally, I do rh Hurricane, or dash in s. rh reset.
A cool thing Ryu has that a lot of characters don’t is a good anti-throw trick. Well, it’s not really something specific to him, but his option is safe. If you learn the range where your opponent cant throw you but the distance isn’t obvious (and they’ll still attempt a throw), nothing says I luv u like a c.fierce xx short Hurricane. The c. fierce stuffs low attacks, and if the sequence is blocked, its still pretty safe considering the recovery on the short Hurricane, and the general quickness of the combo.
Simply saying ‘oh the player will choose to save the meter cause he has a different super’ is STILL not a reason… EVEN if we assume that the player should be using EXs instead of super (which is true at times)… what’s to stop them from just not using the other supers and using EX? nothing! What benefit does having denjin give ryu… nothing! At least if your talking about EXs.
To say we need to switch to denjin so we don’t rely on supers, is like saying we should disconnect the up switch so we have to jump less. The simpler answer is just to make a better decision, not to remove options. To this point Denjin provides no better options, it just provides less.
It all boils down to two things:
The only part that’s really open for discussion is #2, if you find some explaination that involves the denjin actually hitting people, and to the extent that justifies losing the benefits of the other supers, then you have a case (which you just provided 2, some redizzy, and some mp/hp srk setup, now i still don’t buy into either, but those at least were on topic). I don’t see how anything else is even up for discussion, it seems like it’s something you invented about how people (maybe the people around you) play, certainly not everyone.
all this theory fighter is really getting ridiculous locust. i just want to play you and stuff your denjin with my shinkuu hadouken…:mad:
and…you DO realize…regardless of what super you have, EX moves take off the same amount of meter right? so that whole theory about being able to get meter back earlier with denjin…it really makes no sense. also, you make arguments about rushing down with EX, because that’s ryu’s strong point. if you utilize EXs so much, how will you ever be able to use denjin?
i don’t even want an answer. i just want you to think about that. bye.
How does it not make sense? It makes perfect sense. The shorter the super bar the easier it is to charge. Let’s say Ryu had a make believe super that was 1 centimeter over the amount of level that it takes for an EX and then another that was 2 inches over the amount of level for an EX move. Is it not easier to charge the first super rather than the second in general AND if you use EX moves? Yes. EX moves deplete bar so unless you already have a whole bar full then use an EX move it will be very hard to charge another level. All I’m saying is that if Ryu wants to use EX moves all the time then denjin is best for him b/c it will give you more chances to use that super seeing as how it has the shortest super meter. If you constantly use EX moves you can’t use a super anyhow but the shorter the super bar gets the more feasible it is especially if it’s only 1 centimeter past EX b/c their will be times when using an EX move isn’t the best option and that will only raise your level closer to super so when you actually use an EX move you’re that much closer to your super being charged. This strategy will only work if you know how to use that super though of course. Do ya’ll get how small super meter ties in with EX moves YET, god!!!?
You must be balanced when playing with denjin Ryu. You can use lots of EX moves but not too many EX moves and you must know when to use certain moves to raise stun meter and ways to use denjin to top it off.
locust…you remind me of this newb.
everyone flames him.
at this stage, one has to ask oneself ‘is it worth arguing with such a bigot?’
seriously, neither side is going to change his/her opinion, and i say leave the scrub to his dreams until it gets shattered in a competitive environment.
one thing i’d say is that locust, you say so much, and yet say so little.
Similarly, Remy’s Blue Nocturne is his best super.
Why? Because Remy needs to use EX sonic booms to lock his opponent down. But if he wants to use super, he can also do it easily with Blue Nocturne because the bar is so short. BONUS!
Go ahead. Argue with me and look stupid. :eek:
NO I LIKE THE PRESSURE THAT I CAN IMPOSE, FROM HAVING A FULL BLUE NOCTURNE BAR… THEY GUESS WRONG UPON WAKEUP AND BAM!!
First off Remy doesn’t rely on EX moves as much as Ryu. Second blue nocturne isn’t as useful as denjin. I mean any counter that announces that it’s coming is bound to be sorry. Especially since you can’t use it on aerial moves(due to sorry damage and high risk) or on projectiles. It’s like comparing apples to oranges. I’m not saying that Ryu’s other supers aren’t good I’m just saying that denjin is better than you think. Blue nocturne blows b/c Remy’s EX moves are garbage. If his EX moves were better it could happen but as it stands the flaws in blue nocturne are unavoidable. The only thing I can possibly see anyone knocking denjin for is that when you play with it you can’t get the opponent’s stun up enough to finish it off with denjin. Finishing it off isn’t a guaranteed thing but it’s darn close if you know what you’re doin’. If you will disagree with me here then you’re telling me and everyone else that you can red parry Ken’s shoryu reppa after a hadoken or just about any other attack in his arsenal. And let’s not forget the fact that Ryu can charge denjin. What if Ken could charge his shoryu reppa, would it make it any easier to red parry it? I think we all know the answer to this.
Ya’ll act like I’m rediculing ya’ll for things ya’ll say. I’m not, I’m just trying to get my view point across so if ya’ll don’t like it then don’t listen to my cock-a-mamy bullcrap ok. The things I say do have validity though and are very easy to understand. I just can’t understand why it takes like 50 years to get someone to understand a simple little concept. Just b/c you disagree that the concept will work doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t make sense to you. 2 plus 2 still equals 4 no matter how you look at it.
I’ll admit that I started playing denjin for the wrong reasons but now my mental has totally changed. See, my mind evolves while ya’lls just stands still. If denjin had no more to offer as I began to dive into it’s possibilities then I would have left it at the door step. It did have more to offer though. It opened up a better EX game for me and made me have to think my way through fights rather than just muscle my way out with stupid shin shoryuken tactics. Notice strategy vs. tactics. Preferring tactics to strategy isn’t necessarily a bad thing it’s just different which is why I don’t nag ya’ll for playing different supers. It’s much easier and natural to use tactics rather than strategy which is why I think ya’ll adhere so easily to mindless stuff but have such a hard time grasping the more intimate concepts behind a super art. And yes I know this isn’t theory fighter but theories make for the best strategy and everyone needs a plan to win. I just happen to enjoy the more elaborate plans and shy away from the easy ones. Someone once told me that simplicity is best. Oh hell, who am I kidding I’ve heard it a thousand times and so have you. There is merit to this way of thinking but it isn’t always right. In fact, God is more complex than you or me will ever know. So if you say that simplicity is best then you just slapped God in the face. Tune in for my next sermon. It’ll be Sunday at 9 or when ever the next person posts in response to this. Which ever comes first. Peace:)
Do you check your “facts” before you post them? I think most people don’t realize LP and MP SRK can’t be teched… cause you’re making things up.
Checkthis video.
You can easily tech the SRK then easily parry the Denjin. That is a JP SRK, followed by 360s to charge the Denjin faster, and still it’s easy to get out of. Don’t say “you released it the instant he got up, if you hadn’t done that it would’ve thrown off the first parry”, cause if you delay your Denjin at all it gives the other Ryu time to either nail you with a Shinkuu Hadoken or at least cancel out all your Denjin with a Shinkuu and still get some hits.
Note: video is in DivX3 codec, no sound, 15 fps.
Locust:
Why do you act like no one understands you? We understand what you are saying. We’re just saying those strats you posted aren’t viable in tourney play. If you want to amaze people, goto www.gamefaqs.com and post there.
I’m sorry but the things you are trying out, are like 2 years old. I tried all your crappy tactics a week after the game was out. These old tactics have been tested by others too and they just don’t work.
Obviously, you’re a new player. You didn’t know how tech rolls work. You didn’t know you could charge denjin faster by rotating the stick 360s. Just accept the facts. You are a noob to this game and should learn from others instead of wasting time convincing them your stuff works.