True, dashing back fireball xx shinkuu can be anti-air but only if your dash back will make them wiff their move. This is hard since Ryu’s dash back is basically crap. It’s slow and doesn’t go anywhere. If they jump from far away you can use it but if they jump from close or try for a cross up it doesn’t work but I don’t have to tell you that. Shin shoryuken must be parried before the screen pause(from close) if I’m not mistaken which makes it good for anti-air. Plus shin shoryuken has good invincibility frames (9 if I’m not mistaken) which is second only to Sean’s shoryu cannon. He did learn from the best shoryuken artist in the game I guess. BTW exodus, do you know the frame execution on Ryu’s EX shoryuken? I know it’s hella fast but I need some concrete numbers.
It’s also true that Ryu’s game revolves around alot of EX moves. That’s why I like shinkuu and denjin. Not to mention Ryu is supposed to be the fireball expert which makes more sense to fight with those supers story wise and all. If you use alot of EX moves you hardly ever get enough bar to do a shin shoryuken but shinkuu and denjin common place. Shinkuu is great for just about everything but that super is kinda old to me so I try to use denjin instead. I love the combos that shinkuu allows too. Double super and corner combos rule when you have shinkuu. Why can Sean roll under shinkuu anyway? That force wave in front of it should blast that dude to the next dimension. Right now I’m working on poking with EX fireballs since they do decent damage. I try to treat fireballs like longer range normal attacks that very rarely trade hits. They are good for poking games and such.
I did originally post denjin stuff for winning more, you’re right. But winning once by using denjin smart is better to me than winning five times with shinkuu hadoken and probably ten times with shin shoryuken. Man my DC is busted dude. I can’t even practice until I get a new one. Man what a bummer.
I know this belongs in the Sean section but I thought it would get more exposure here. It’s almost useless but since the hadou burst with Sean doesn’t hit as soon as he releases it he can stand in front of an aegis reflector and throw it through the reflector. The only way I can see this as being useful is if the Urien player messes up his aegis setup and sits behind his reflector doing attacks to gain level unafraid of the hadou burst. If you were close enough to the reflector you could just bust out the burst and tear em’ up. A one time gimmick I know but interesting.
Correct me if I’m wrong but a straight shin shoryu as an AA isnt that effective. For some reason tho I have problems parrying an AA shinryuken, but AA shin shoryu is not hard to parry.
parrying a shin shoryuken is very easy. it’s rhythmic. even if you jab jab jab jab jab xx shin shoryuken, it’s not that hard, because once again, it is rhythmic. if someone jumps over you and they’re close, obviously you dash forward and super them from behind…
I know that, but it’s not always possible to avoid jumpers with back dash or forward dash. Parrying shin shoryuken is rhythmic but parrying the first hit is obviously the most important. Hell, even if you parry the first hit and let him get the rest it’ll do crap damage. Still, any super where you have to parry before the screen pause is dangerous for anti-air. On the ground you can simply block after you attempt the parry. I believe it is referred to as dead shield.
After tapping forward for a parry there is a small amount of time afterwards that you cannot parry forward again. It’s the same for down. The reason capcom did this is so people continually ramming on forward or down can’t parry a whole lot of stuff. Has anyone ever tried to use parry specific moves on reaction to someone walking, ducking, or miss parrying? Of course the move you use must be fast enough to hit them during the window where they can’t parry again. This could be a way of making seemingly useless moves useful. I’ve tried Sean’s qcf+K but to no avail. Sean’s qcf+K if parried(which is very easy) will mess him up big time but if it’s blocked it’s not nearly as bad. It could also hit the opponent simply b/c they could try and parry when they aren’t allowed to. Of course this strategy wouldn’t work if they were already holding the direction lets say from a jump or getting up or something. I might try to see if d+MK with Ryu can be used on reaction against those who just started ducking to make it un-parriable. That could be useful knowledge you know.
I pick Shinshoryuken for a reason; not to land the super, but to create fear in my opponent’s mind that the super can come at any instant. A big part of my Ryu strategy is to get meter and then just sit on the super. When Ryu has that super it is scary. You don’t want to do anything stupid or you will pay big time.
It is the essence of this fear that will change the way people play. Seeing Shinshoryuken charged and ready to go will drastically reduce the number of random wake up dps and such a player is willing to do. Guess wrong and it’s goodnight. When the opponent is less willing to take risks and starts to play more defensively, then Ryu can take advantage. My entire offense at this time is essentially a barrage of kara-throwing. If they ever try to tech, I can Shinshoryuken them. But I don’t, I keep throwing instead. Usually I will try to keep Shinshoryuken stocked until the third round unless it is absolutely necessary. Because without that meter, Ryu is not a threat.
Shinshoryuken is a good super because it is effective even if you never land it. Actually landing the super is like an added bonus.
Shinkuu Hadouken on the other hand is a terrible super. The only reason to pick it is for 2 stocks of EX moves. EX fireballs actually give Ryu a safe offensive option against most characters. Throwing lots of EX fireballs often is really effective. The only downside is it is unverifiable and random. Blocking a lot beats this strategy. Consistency is key to winning in tournaments. Why give yourself a random factor. You are not always going to guess right.
And finally, Denjin is the most random super ever. Ryu gets neither the benifit of EX fireballs, or the fear of instant death by Shinshoryu. With Denjin, he is left with no tools, and somehow has to get the opponent into the corner. Then, he has to knock them down, start up the super, and pray that they get hit. I personally don’t know good enough prayers to make this super any good.
when I am chargin denji (holdin the punch), then I release it (the denji fire ball comes out). How many frame is it? (from release the punch button to the ball comes out)???
I am new guy and I just show I wat I am thinking, not offensive to anyone.
What you said are right. Shinshoryuken gives opponent a great pressure and “Ex strategy” of Shinkuu Hadouken. But for Denjin, I got another opinion.
I think denjin can give opponent a great pressure on both “Damnage and Stun”. My strategy is focusing both “damnage and Stun”. Ryu itself got a lot of Stun move (e.g: dive kick, f-mp, stand mk, etc), and ryu is also good on damnage. During versus, I am playing a defensve gameplay actually, using standing mk to avoid opponent get close and wait for parry:D . Once I grap a chance (after parry), I will try to pull out Hp > dive kick (Everyone knows that this combo cost quite a lot stun). Then after that, I can just pull out d-mk > denjin (3hits) to stun my opponent.
What I want to say is Denjin can play a “stun rush” strategy. When opponent got 40% of stun, you can do watever u like. Focus on stun or damnage.
What is more, I really think Denjin is better than Shinshoryuken. The point is Ryu itself is born to be a defensive character. Not like ken, his normal (punch/kick) move is not good at offense. The disadvantages of Shinshoryuken are:
You can’t keep attack your opponent much becoz ryu is weak at offense. Then how do you charge up your super, sa2 takes lots of time to charge up. Especially for tourney, ppl are quite defensive, it became more worse.
A chance to pull out the super: you dun have much chance to pull out the super. Right, it really gave opponent a great pressure. Besides, opponent will avoid to “eat” your super as hard as they can. If opponent block all the attack within “throw distance”. Even if you got a good buffer skill, its hard to grab a chance anyway.
In the other hand, not like Shinshoryuken, Denjin can focus on both “stun and damnage”. Even Ryu is weak at offense, it can give opponent a great pressure.
PS. I am a hongkie, so please forgive my poor english
I think honestly the truth is just to be different in most cases. I like Mopreme’s Strategy cause I understand where he is coming from with pressure. Ryu although he is the best character out of the SF series to me, he unfortunately has to work really hard to get his wins in 3rd Strike. To win with him you have to be smarter and trickier than your opponent. Well one day I will master a strategy with him that will work well on all opponents .
Saying that you don’t get the benefit of EX fireballs with denjin is wrong IMO. I play denjin alot now and I base my whole Ryu strategy around fireballs and especially EX fireballs. In fact I think denjin is best for this strategy. Think about it, I’ve said this before. If you’re playing and using EX moves how can you charge up enough level for a shinkuu or shin shoryuken? You can’t. Sitting on a full level is a good way to die. Yes, it makes people play differently but it also depends on what character you play. It’s not that hard to play smart to avoid the shin shoryuken IMO(easier said than done sometimes I know) plus you can’t use EX fireball or they aren’t scared of shin shoryuken anymore. You can try and poke with EX lunge kick b/c you get most of the level back after hitting it. Obviously it will work better on some than others. Denjin is also good b/c when you stun your opponent you can have 1/4 to 1/2 of a super right after using it. It’s not like you’ll need to throw more than 2 EX moves in a row. With denjin you have the possible damage of shin shoryuken or greater, an unblockable move, and enough EX to play around those moves. I said that I thought that realistically SA I was best for Ryu but I’ve been playing with all 3 lately and I’ve come to the conclusion that denjin is best IMO. It’s pretty much a tie though. He is very balanced with his super arts Ryu is. Not like alot of other characters.
Have you seen a ryu player rushing down with ex moves? Denjin gives you 1-2 ex moves then he has to recharge. That will cause you to lose your momentum. Denjin sucks for ex moves. I know you don’t believe it but that is da truth.
Umm, shinkuu has 2 levels, and the # of EXs you get are significantly more than with denjin.
I’m sure there are some useful things with denjin, so a thread on ‘good uses of denjin’ would actually be helpful and appreciated by someone i’m sure.
Trying to redefine the entire game, all to try to somehow make this loose connection that denjin is better than it really is, and we’re just not ‘seeing’ the game right, is kind of cultish if you ask me. Maybe if you drink the wrong kool-aid denjin suddenly gets more damage or has more EX, that’s about all i can think of.
Because super arts aren’t everything, you can win with denjin ryu, but rarely will it be because of the denjin, and he would have still won with either of the other two supers. The reverse cannot be said, many matches can be won with the other two supers that would be hopeless with denjin, so that is pretty much the end of it, unless you have a better setup for denjin that hasn’t been posted ever.
locust: go to the next north carolina major tournament [it’s in january] – i don’t ever use ryu, but i will guarantee i will beat you with ryu SA1, while you can use as many denjin ryus as you want. maybe that’s the only way to show you how bad denjin really is in tournament play…
I like how people think I don’t know SA I has 2 levels and holds a crap load more EX moves than denjin. Here’s the reality check though, YOU NEED TO CHARGE UP AN EX MOVE TO USE IT GENIOUSES. Like just having shin shoryuken or shinkuu hadoken lets you get level faster. Give me a break and let me explain it to ya’ll child style ok? You play the game normally but while trying to pressure/poke with EX fireballs and EX lunge kicks. When you hit either you get level back and continue fighting and using EX moves again. Yes, when you don’t hit one for a while Ryu does suffer b/c it takes him a while to charge up another one. So sue me for not sitting on level ALL the time. I’m an active player who doesn’t try and wait until I gain a whole shinkuu level to start doing EX moves. That’s a waste and using them too late IMO. Maybe not as bad when playing with shinkuu or shin shoryuken but try doin’ it with denjin and see how much better you play. You might be suprised. Where’s the rule book that says, ok Ryu can’t use EX moves until you charge up an entire level. Hell, if you’re using them on a consistent basis then you aren’t gonna have a whole level that much anyway. Here’s how I would say I play. I try and poke/parry intellegently while using d+MP repeatedly to charge level across the screen. All the while poking with fireballs which baits jump ins which can give me more damage opportunities as well. I try not to use it if it can get me into a whole heap of trouble though. Ok, when I get an EX charged it’s on then. I try to see opportunities to parry and get an EX lunge kick combo and poke with the EX fireball since it does decent damage, is safe when parried, and knocks down which allows you to charge level again. Like I said before sometimes I like to throw in lunge kicks and EX lunge kicks unexpectedly. To make a long story short I base my play around Ryu’s EX moves (esp. EX fireball) and if I happen to get a level or see a good time to save level for a denjin then I’ll use it if the person has enough stun and/or is in a situation that would allow me to use it without retaliation. Ta Da!!! I didn’t try and prove Mopreme wrong either. I know he’s a good player but just b/c someone beats you doesn’t mean their strategy was better it just means they used their strategy better than you used yours. It’s very unlikely that Mopreme’s strategy or mine is the best out there for Ryu. Especially considering all there is to know and do. I liked to hear his strategy of playing shin shoryuken. It is very interesting but not a new idea to me. I’ve used super scare tactics before. I’m suprised that everybody takes so well to it. Usually if it is something that doesn’t do damage right then people say it sucks or that it blows. Personally, I think it’s just b/c people know Mopreme plays good and has made a name for himself. There are many different ways to play the same character. Variety is great don’t cha think?
