I have no problems with Phoenix and Dark Phoenix. She’s supposed to be godlike from the beginning.
This is a post Evo grand finals interview of viscant. He said it. Phoenix won him the tournament. “[pr rog and justin wong] have the right to be salty” lol
I played as Phoenix in a random match. First impulse for ANYONE using Phoenix (either for the first time or after a while) is to horde meter, gain 5, tag Phoenix in, get killed, and wreck shit. But I drew Taskmaster as well (one of my better mains) and I went to town, lost him, got bodied hardcore with my 2nd character (I think it was Felicia) and got Jean in. KO’ed 2 characters, got Dark Phoenix (guy needed to burn his X-Factor to take out Task), and I said fuck it. LV. 3 X-Factor, Phoenix Rage, Won Match. (Guy even blocked AND pushblock and still got KOed)
I had so much fun when it was Task against the world. Then Phoenix was the only one left that mattered and then the fun got thrown out the window. Re-match with the same characters, but I put Jean on point and did a decent job with her. I was VERY satisfied with that instead of the complete bullshit of Lv 3-DPx-Spam-the-living-shit-out-of-every-fucking-move-you-have. (Lost since the other player picked his “Anti-Phoenix” team and I only had 2 useful characters to use.
While Jean is a very fun character to use (I love using her with Dorm and Trish with a shit-ton of trap set-ups and zoning like a mofo), Phoenix just ruins the enjoyment of ever using her.
Nerf the living shit out of her Lv3 X-Factor and half of the problem is resolved instantly.
And on another thing. Some people said that this game has only been out for a few months and that we haven’t waited long enough to develop any new Anti-Phoenix tech. Well it only took a week or two (maybe even less), for people to realize that Lv 3 X-Factor DPx is broken as shit. How much longer do you want to wait until someone who uses DPx creates a new and COMPLETELY invincible way of destroying your entire team while all you can do is throw your console out the window? Sure I could make an attempt to use Task’s Air Legion Arrows to chip her to death, but I can’t do that when SHE CAN’T TAKE CHIP DAMAGE IN X-FACTOR MODE!!! so how do you plan on fixing her brokeness? Fix Dark Phoenix’s X-Factor. Have her take half chip damage, slower health drain, no speed boost, and lower the damage boost. Capcom gave her an inch and she took off to the far reaches of the fucking universe.
Dark Phoenix+ XF3 is entirely too good. There is no reason she should not be on your team. Even Dark Phoenix haters cant deny it. Jean will always suck, though. :rolleyes:
Um, it seems that you all forgot that Hulk strongest there is.
On topic: I’m sorry but the antics that even the worst Phoenix player is capable of are brutally overpowering. Phoenix got the nerf she needed.
Sure there’s a viable counter to phoenix but what people don’t get is that’s a viable counter to EVERYONE. Snap them in and put them in a mixup… news flash, that shit kills everyone. Phoenix is regoddamndiculous when she gets going. People SHOULD NOT be able to do what she does to teams with that character, with such little effort. Do you think people should get XF3 comebacks that easy? It doesn’t make for a better game. You feel cheated. The spectators feel cheated. It’ll be better nerfed.
This is exactly how many people feel about some of the chars right now. Reminds me a lot of why Japan soft bans O. Sagat in SSF2T; easy to use, and shuts down a lot of the cast. Without some balancing/more game-breaking glitches than there were/are now (Cap’s sheld slash infinite, DHC glitch, unbreakable TAC), you’d be seeing Wolvie (and someone on his friend list), Phoenix, and/or Wesker in every single team. This is far worse to the competitive life of this game than 1.3 mil health Sentinel could have ever been.
On the subject of balancing Phoenix, it’s been said many times before that it will be VERY difficult to balance her with her current “glass super Gatling gun” design. There’d have to be some drastic changes. Like that suggestion of making other conditions aside from super building for transforming into Dark Phoenix. Make her have some sort of Phoenix Force meter/counter that requires certain moves to connect in order to build it up. This includes some of her assist moves, so then she’d have to actively risk herself if she wants to be uber god mode. That… actually interests me the more I think about it…
EDIT: Since EVO is part of the topic, I’d like to point out that we can’t really take EVO into full account in terms of how well the pros are doing in this game. Remember, PS3 = 1 frame lag/second on inputs. I won’t say Viscant won because of this, but I will say that it did contribute to a lot of missed moments and opportunities. Want proof? J Wong dropped Wolverine combos… 3 times… in the same match… and it was in the tournament…
You could do a shit ton of balancing to Phoenix by just removing the 20% damage bonus(so all she gets is the higher minimum damage and feathers) she gets when Dark, and toning down her Dark x-factor damage bonus. You could even lower her minimum damage scaling in Dark to 20%, it just needs to be set to where the feathers aren’t a damage loss. Doing that, along with the changes to other characters, and the universal system changes would leave her still being good, and powerful, but a lot more down to earth.
Is the PS3 version of the game not the tourney standard pretty much everywhere (I seriously don’t know)?
Phoenix is currently the best in the game. But that said, I don’t really agree with all the people saying that she’s cheap and a brainless character. Most of the complaints about Phoenix being OP all are related to Dark Phoenix mode and not regular Phoenix, which is the whole point of DP. DP is supposed to be a reward for the Phoenix player, it’s your fault that you let her live long enough to build 5 meters. The pressure of having her snapped in and being forced to face a mix-up is immense, and being able to survive that against a good player is no easy task. Chances are if you got into Dark Phoenix mode AND with X-Factor in reserve, you deserved all the benefits you get from DP mode. It’s the whole idea behind how Phoenix works in this game. DP is not meant to be treated like a character on its own that requires balancing like a lot of people think. The way I think of Phoenix in this game, she’s not a character you can easily deal with by specific detailed setups no matter how good you are with cross-ups and your high/low mixups. Chances are none of those are going to work against Dark Phoenix, and she pretty much throws all those mind games down the drain. That’s part of what makes her unique from everyone else and forces the opponent to change their gameplan instead of bulldozing through your team.
Wow, really?!? People have months and months to figure this shit out. To blame one frame of lag that’s a known factor for affecting the outcome of the tournament is ridiculous. JWong is human. He’s dropped Wolverine combos before. It happens.
I’d agree… If it weren’t with Wolverine. 3 times in the same match. Forgot to mention it, but it was easily convertible hits too (lol what isn’t with wolvie).
And yes, this has SOME (not every) factor in tournament results. Any lag will make lower execution, higher damage characters better in comparison. Don’t pretend like the results wouldn’t have changed if lag didn’t put some factor into this.
EDIT: But that wasn’t the main point of that statement. The message I was putting out was that what we saw in EVO isn’t entirely what we should expect from the competitive scene of MVC3. We could’ve definitely see better.
Also, I remember S.Kill mentioning the issue of PS3 during EVO, much to UltraDave’s obvious annoyance. Just pointing out something I thought was fucking hilarious.
If Phoenix is nerfed into shit tier, people are just going to complain about the next top tier.
In the end looking back at this game Wolverine stunted the growth of the game greatly while Phoenix added another layer to it.
People will still complain about phoenix though…
The main annoying thing about Phx is the affect on the skill differential. I think she was beautifully done in the game, both visually and even mechanically. But the bottom line is, if I may steal ELO ratings from chess, she lets 1400s get wins over 2200s. If I played JWong in MvC3 w/o Phx in the equasion, it’s a virtual guarantee the score is 10-0 Justin. But if I play my Phoenix team, it likely would not be 10-0. Even if it were still 9-1 or 8-2, it would still be total bullshit.
And then there’s the effect where, if I decide to go on a Phoenix romp, my opponents all feel the need to switch to Phoenix to be able to hang. And Phoenix mirrors aren’t really that fun imo.
But that is true of Cable as well in MvC2. His AVHB could do the same thing and such.
Phoenix is a high reward high risk character. High reward gives you the broken chicken head, high risk your team falls apart. Why smart players play her the best. They know how to reduce the risk to make her a normal risk high reward character.
They nerfed Sentinel like crazy early in the game. People still play and compete with him though. It just made it so ‘everyone’ didn’t pick Sentinel and instead there was a little more diversity and creativity in team selection. The same will happen when Phoenix and Wolverine are nerfed so I don’t see why people want to complain about it…unless they want to play against the same team over and over again.
But the only reason you would get steamed rolled by jwong is because you have to guess at the beginning of the match and if you get hit you get unblockables ran on the rest of your incoming characters. (Yes you have to GUESS for throw shenanigans teleport slash mix ups or instant overheads into drill claw)
Not really a good argument like it or not phoenix kept matches interesting and kept wolverine teams from beating people within 15 secs of the match.
‘Interesting’ is a very subjective word. To me, Phoenix teams are even MORE boring than Wolvie and friends. I’d rather have less of an opportunity for a long, drawn out fight, of which Phoenix teams are frighteningly effective.
Wolverine teams you usually see the same shit over and over and over. Phoenix users will like to throw out different gameplay options when XF3 wears off.