I swear to god all you have to do is not kill her, or snap her in as soon as the match begins if yu land the 1st hit. If you dont do those 2 things you lose.
You’ve obviously been playing some shitty Phoenixes then.
@ Danimals. Im not saying that on my account. I suck, and yes I probably did play shitty Phoenixes… Im not one of those players who think they know what they are talking about. All Im saying…all that Im trying to say is.
Dark Phoenix is the absolute beast, and arguably the best character in the game. Regular Jean isnt. People these days are so bent on playing so straight up these days they forgot how to annoy, runaway, and block. If I were a top player (If I were or ever got to that point.) I would refuse to kill that bitch in any form or fashion if I didnt snap her out from the start.
. Og playstyle might be stale, and insufficient nowadays. But it doesnt hurt to use hit and run for such occasions. Without DP being activated…what is a Phoenix Team? Nothing. Im more afraid of Wolvie on point then her.
RyRy had the right idea, and I respect the use of his tactics.
That’s broken. Not only 800K, but also having Healing Field special and all, a fully invincible Projectile hyper
How can people not see that normal Phoenix is the best character in the game? It baffles me to the point where start pulling my own hair.
Normal Phoenix has as many dangerous/potent mix-ups as Wolverine or Wesker and has an very annoying keepaway game like Trish or Storm. A very good portion of the cast can’t even deal with her shenanigans and on top of that she’s very easy to play.
If that is true why isn’t she on point then? I watched most of EVO, and the majority of wins was in dark phoenix not Jean.
Because even if she’s great, you want to also have the chance to SUPERGREAT.
Also, no health. I’d play a 750k Jean that couldn’t turn into DP, though. Eat that shit for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
What I am saying is, if she was the best character in the game people would be winning alot more with just Jean, and that isn’t happening. People are hating on Jean because she is the one of the only viable keep away character currently in the game. Jean while needing some adjustments, is nowhere near as powerful as D.PH.
And yes I know she has the worst health in game, I am a Phoenix player. Again, not saying she doesn’t need adjusting, but Jean isn’t the problem. D.PH is
edit: BTW Linari made it sound like normal jean can destroy entire teams, which is very much not the case.
Phoenix is the best character in the game. When played perfectly…Aka poonkgo’s Seth.
But she’s not top tier. A character that you can kill with 3 blocked supers from chip damage is not going to be top tier. Not when projectiles rain from the sky and characters can teleport in and out.
Even if you took darkphoenix away phoenix would still be gimmicky. Not even a glass cannon
Essentially wesker is phoenix with health and more damage and no flight.(think wesker zoning with pistol and having to free fall)
And now that Strider is around why pick Phoenix at all besides for dark Phoenix. Three bars and you get dark oroborous.
Again xfactor killed balance in the game and made comebacks more entertaining but at the expense of consistency. The top tier are way to strong because of xfactor, and the low tier don’t benefit from it enough, and when they do land a hit or win from it, it just makes things feel more random and gimicky
The reason you don’t see normal Phoenix killing teams is threefold:
- her health is so tiny that she gets practically gets killed outright by naked random super
- when Phoenix is on the field, generally either she’s last man standing (which means no assists) or she just got snapped in (which means no assists)
- normal Phoenix goes all out to avoid using XF unless time is running out
Wolvie is a great character, but put him 1-on-3 without XF and he’s not going to be killing whole teams, either.
Indeed i put Wesker and Wolvie way above her. Couldnt agree more. Bitch is useless without DP, and all she is is a vessel for Dark Phoenix.
Walk into random thread, see myself quoted in the OP
LOL
I stated this in the comments on the Evo results on the main page.
Game is six months old, there is little real high level play yet just very solid upper mid play. People find new tech daily, it will be another year before we have what can really be considered high level play and by then we will have UMVC3 instead.
She certainly is a strong character, however Capcom have done what they have proven to do best…overcompensated.
Lets look back at HD Remix for an example. To make Claw more fair they gave more characters answers to is walldive. Guile and Ken got more forward movement on their Hard DP/FK, Dhalsim got improved Upflame, many characters got tweaked jumping normals to counter it…then they nerfed the Walldive.
This is more of the same ; they nerfed Xfactor and added options that drain meter to give us more options in controlling your opponents strategies with battery characters as well as giving many characters new moves to make chasing her down easier (Ryu’s reflecting Shinku-Hadouken for instance), then they nerfed her Health and zoning/run away capabilities. I hate how the current generation of Capcom balances things, they don’t fix issues they make new ones. Character X is OP??? Give everyone better tools for them THEN nerf the hell out of that character. What you get is just a flipped over tier list with a new God Tier.
High tier characters should be mostly left alone, if something is so strong it needs addressing then give them something in compensation. By this time next year Vanilla MVC3 players would have found more reliable things to do after snapbacks and more moves like Ultimate Web Throw and Weapon X that can punish DP activation on reaction. I seriously hope Phoenix gets something new to make up for all of this, or it will be truly sad.
This
And it is a huge part of why I think she is a weak link on people’s teams. It forces people to make very bad choices early in the match, where they could kill a character or two but instead save meter for a situation which is essentially a Comeback Mechanic. Compared to SF it would be like having a mechanic where if you lose round one you start round three with full Ultra meter and Super meter…and then purposefully losing round one rather than trying to win. Even if she were the same power level I am sure with the addition of new characters we would have seen a majority of Phoenix players pick a new third character once Ultimate comes out. For most people choosing her stems down to a lack of choices of characters to fit people’s teams well.
Yet 9/10 times this is what you see top level players doing, hording meter.
I’ll agree with this. My Taskmaster would undeniably be stronger if it weren’t for my Phoenix, which is why I have abandoned Phoenix; I’ve been trying to learn Wesker instead. If I’m going to have this reflex not to use meter (which is true in all games I play – I am stingy with limited resources, it’s a tendency), I might as well be running a character who does most of his damage without meter.
I think my team will get significantly better after this particular change.
And once more people started to see this, they would have stopped using Phoenix as well
Here’s an idea :
Make it more difficult for Phoenix’s teammates to build meter. If she’s chosen as a teammate, automatically reduce the amount of meter gained by her allies by, for example, 15%. (give or take…just throwing that number out there.) Hell, even throw in a SLIGHT reduction in damage as well. Normal meter gain can only be obtained if the player is willing to use her on point. Make it a true risk/reward senario.
My main reasoning behind this is that players will put characters around Phoenix who will build a good amount of meter, thus making it more likely that DP will happen. Seeing how she’s the only character who’s got the ability to be revived, make it happen under tougher circumstances so it doesn’t happen as often. Like I said, adjust the percentage so the player is forced to either roll with a Phoenix-based team and have to work harder at getting DP, or go with a standard team that builds meter at a normal rate, yet doesn’t have DP to have as a sure-fire last resort.
Yeah I think the single biggest problem when I look at other “power transformation” characters from other games like Zappa from Guilty Gear…the requirements to bring out Raoh for Zappa definitely require more work than this do 2 combos get a 4th broken character shit. You get even more reward than you did with Raoh for less work.
Reason why pheonix and wolvie get people so upset is the level of difficulty (even wesker too).
Magneto & Dante require very good execution to land their cheap stuff 100% of the time while the other two are so difficult to not mess up. It’s hard to not drop your dante combo when your opponent barely has to work so you are going against someone who has less nerves & can focus on the match more b/c their characters are so cruise control.
It’s evo, use the cheap stuff or w/e I take nothing from viscant, but the problem with mvc3 is that the cheap stuff doesn’t require much skill like in mvc1
Ex: Ironman infinities, Rom, sent, storm etc.
If Mvc2 had mvc3 wolvie & mvc3 pheonix, we wouldn’t of seen the extremely skillful players being pushed to their limits and missed out on entertainment.
edit: At the end of the day I blame the game design.