?
i was talking to jeff (crimson) about how we played at evo south… where i’d be on 30% health or something and jeff/pozer would be at 150.
good times.
The point of my reply was that for the most part Bryan has much better punishers now so Machbreaker isn’t really used as much.
dont no if this was posted but ill post it anyways
as of aug 10, 2008, the updated (tougeki) tier list is…
S+
Kazuya, Jin, Devil Jin, Bob
S
Anna, Dragunov, Lei, Raven, Roger.jr
A+
Armor King, Zafina, Jack6, Julia, Nina, Bryan, Heihachi, Miguel, Lee, Lili, Leo, Law, Yoshimitsu
A
Asuka, Eddy, King, Kuma&Panda, Xiaoyu, Steve, Hwoarang, Feng, Bruce, Paul, Marduk, Wang
B+
Ganryu, Baek
That looks pretty accurate, I didn’t really know jin’s potential until recently. Never seen roger jr in action either.
Dragonuv, Raven, Lei around the same with dragonuv ahead makes sense, I would think leo but be in the same tier as well.
Paul is ass as expected.
Everyone else gets all the new crazy shit but him…
I didn’t say anything earlier, but Jin carries to the wall w/o bound the best of all the Mishimas, and probably the best in the game thanks to b+2,1(IIRC). It’s also a braindead punisher that gives disturbing +frame games almost as bad as his old 2,1. All of the rest of his ground game is solid too. His hellsweep not being AS slow as it used to makes it better too.
Roger Jr. is up there because the stupid dmg you get off of ANY launcher, having possibly the BEST homing attack in the game (tailwhip, aka df+3), and her punch range not being ass anymore(reanimated 2,1 helps a WHOLE lot).
And thanks to f+4 post B!, Jack-6 has raised up a bit. After the A99 patch people were having problems getting good damage since you had to sacrifice so much before B! in order to get full df+1212 to hit.
Also, LOL Baek and Ganryu. You niggas suck. Too bad for Baek though, because he really needed to get better boosts but the fact that he has like 0 useful B! moves outside of FLA really hurt him, along with the fact that he’s still stupid basic. Ganryu on the other hand, while I understand some of his nerfs/changes, he didn’t need to get fucked THAT bad. lol
EDIT
Re: Shishioh - To be honest, EVERYONE ELSE but the B rank has good shit and can challenge the top, its just that in some cases it’s just not enough. Once again the main factor from what I see is how well they can pressure, how well they can punish, and (for the most part) how much damage/pressure can you get from any hit(specifically sweeping lows).
You know what I actually find it a lot harder to fight against paul in this game than in previous games. He has this new slow ass low that seems impossible to block for me for some reason that leads to almost 50% damage.
Also his old d+1,2 d+1,4,2 mixup, which is the oldest thing he’s had is actually a lot harder to block lol. Eating that against the wall sucks.
sao kan: Yeah you’re absolutely right, I didn’t know the notation but that’s exactly the move I was thinking about when I said jin was good. It takes you so far without bound, and very good on regular hit. I might have to say he’s above devil jin just because he’s so much easier use.
Playing mishimas (kaz, dj) really really suck if your execution is less than 85%.
I think hwoarang belongs in A+ tier somewhere next to armor king but that’s just me.
Re: Paul
qcf+1+2 is what you’re thinking of, and it’s a stupid low that you know you shouldnt get hit with but it snips you anyway. lol I know how you feel.
As for Falling Leaf BS, its because they swapped the timing for it. You can actually fuzzy low parry and not get hit by either part because the sweep is WAY faster now. OTOH, it makes for some dumb juggles since he can do d+1,4,2 off of wakeup sweeps now, amongst other things.
Hwoarang, I don’t think belongs that high, because he has to try SO HORD. If your D is on point and you know what he’s capable of, the worst you’ll get hit with off of him is his random lows. He is still decent on punishing and whiff punishing though. He just doesn’t have anything scary. lol
As for Jin, I agree with the tier list, he’s WAY easier to handle than DJin, simply because he has a hopkick. lol Jin has WAY more ways of getting you into the air, and NONE of them require you to B! early(DJ hellsweeps). Ease of use + better combos = better ranking. The same reason why A.King is a whole rank above King this game, even with all of his buffs and changes King has to rely on riskier shit to get dmg, and his wall dmg is lacking. A.King’s juggles are easier, and if he’s on a walled stage, GGPO. lol King can’t do a mid-screen combo, knock them away post-B!, and still get damn good wall DMG(post B! df+1, f+2,1 W! SW).
I like how niggas was saying Julia was ass, and now she’s at the top of the A+ tier. lol All because they were worried that she had no good B! combos. How far we’ve come.
QCF 1+2 gets me killed too much to use it with him.
Phoenix Smasher has next to no pushback now so it’s even more punishable.
They took his rapid fire to the low attack away completely so that leaves that move onesided.
His regular punch launcher has no range whatsoever anymore.
Nerfed damage on PS also.
They had no reason to nerf him like this. He was already just midtier…now he’s ass tier.
And I didn’t appreciate that “make him dumb” shit in T5 either.
Fuzzy low parrying eh, ok I will try that next time I play. It’s faster? No wonder it feels like I always get hit by the d+1,4 and when I actually duck, I get hit by the stupid delayed punch. That never happened to me before. I’m wondering if I can ewgf between the d+1 and the delayed 2. Yeah I feel stupid when I get hit by qcf+1+2, it’s like miguel’s db+1 except slower (I can’t block that either)
As far as hwoarang, maybe it’s because I play Devil Jin, and I do know how hwoarang (damn I can’t call him bob anymore) works, but I still feel compelled to interrupt him, otherwise his strings will never end and I’m just sitting there trying to block everything. I can’t backdash anymore upclose so I’m only left with down jabs and sidewalk. I will concede to the tier listing because he still has to land a hit to do damage, but once you’re against the wall, it’s sickening.
Hearing your post makes me want to stop playing devil jin completely, I tried kazuya but I just never liked the character even though he’s pretty much the closest thing to devil jin, and he’s better than dj in this game.
I did however, pick up julia instead of bob as my secondary, but if you have any tips off the top of your head, shoot! I don’t like to go to zaibatsu because I hate reading through pages of stuff, and I swear there’s a bunch of noobs that post a bunch of stuff that don’t even make sense, I used to post there maybe 6 years ago when I was just a noob and I did the exact same thing.
AFAIK, she’s not so much a counterhit hunting, annoyance pressuring with her elbow into mad axes character anymore (which is the way she used to be and the way I still play her) Suiken, the top lei in socal, tells me she’s all about wall carrying now.
I know there’s that new move that hits grounded (forgot the notation already but it’s with the 2 button) and a move where she tilts her head down and hits you with both arms d+1+2? u+1+2. What is the bread and butter juggle this time around?
Another thing about d+4 with Paul: The sweep has less range now compared to 5. Just move out of range and he’ll have to work harder to mixup with it.
goodness Miguel looks mad fun to play
intellect edit: even though Miguel is a street fighter his fighting style is very close resemblance to french savate combat
Which mover are you talking about? I dont play Jin but I was thinking of picking him up when it comes out on PS3 so I can practice in my own time rather than spend 1 (=$2) ago just to get owned silly down the arcades.
This game has always seemed foreign to me, basically what I see is matches consisting of trying to get position to do whatever they do aka, long ass dial em’ up combos. Higher level of this play is to use a combo to put your opponenet in a position on wake up where the same thing is to happen(or wall combo). Im guessing their is some kind of mixup game based more on positioning rather than hit levels or throws(which seem not to be used much). Combine this with regular fighting game stuff like punishing and traps. I dabble in vf so sometimes the things going on this game seem like this since im use to a strong throwing game in general in 3d fighters.
This is basically what I get when i see Tekken matches…
/rant
anyone remember the KYSG TTT combo vids
that was pretty good…and also the Jang Ik Su vid
I remember one KYSG TTT video that was pretty awesome. Can’t remember the name though, but had almost every character.
EDITFound it./EDIT
Great stuff.
Never said qcf+1+2 is worth using on people, just that it’s a slow low that some people that have no problems blocking/low parrying quick lows but fuck up when something slower comes out get hit by when they shouldn’t. lol
It’s not just that PS has less pushback, but that more people have long-range punishers for it now. It’s still -14/15 IIRC.
Rapid fire to low? 1,d+4? 2,d+3? What are you talking about?
df+2 still has the range it should have, and it still beats jabs when used right. Dunno who you’re playing that it’s not working.
CH PS still does dmg as it should.
He’s fine, just not busted like other chars. This is the first time Kuma’s been better than him though. lol
After d+1 if they don’t stop or go into crouch(if they commit to the chain), you can hopkick and beat both options because the PS is slower now. Or you can just parry at the timing for the sweep then come back up to block. It’s way easier now.
Like I said with Hwoarang, the “wall of crap” only works if he can somewhere in there get a strong hit, enough small ones, or a launch/stun in. Otherwise he’ll flail at you all day, and there’s ALWAYS a hole you can interrupt him in. Just learn what his options are, and what your opp tends to do. Every Hwo user has their own little flowchart.
As for DJ/Jin, you have to work so much harder to do similar shit with DJ, Jin is just so much better than him now. Everything DJ can do, Jin can and in many cases, do better. Seriously, the fact that Jin has a hopkick makes him way more accessible.
I’m not a Julia player so I have no hints for you. TZ is safe as long as you stick to the combo threads and some of the other stickies, but avoid the other BS threads. But yes, she still has ground game, but it’s not your focus anymore.
He has enough other goofy mid range/close range mids that he can get in and get the mixup, you can’t just win off of just PS/Demo Man mixups anymore.
Mig is fun. Try him when you get the chance.
I pointed it out before. It should be B+2,1 but I’m not entirely sure. It’s a “low” thrust punch into a lifting palm. Both mid, delayable, NC.
It’s exactly that. Because throws take SO LONG to come out(normal throws are 12, long range is 16, some special throws are 10) and if you’re good enough you can see what throw is coming thanks to the hands telegraphing your intent it almost eliminates throws from the game, so you have to mixup safe mids and lows if your opp’s defense is good. Because of relatively worthless throw game it has devolved into “crack that shell”, frame trap games, and once you get that hit making the most of it.
VF has always been a more grounded game, and back in the TTT days there was a lot more groundplay.
Pretty much. Love this game.
lol.
now that youtube hates you where can i get my share of japanese/korean tekken vids in the sea of random people around the world messing with the game?
same here.
we need more tekken love