The System Mechanics Thread

[Chad]

Two things-

So dash recovery can be cancelled. What are all the actions/inputs that can cancel a dash?

Q has throw invincibility at a certain point coming out of a crouch. Do others have this ability as well, and how can we test for it and find out exactly what it is? (mainly for ESN or someone that can test for that) I would be willing to do the legwork if you can point me in the right direction here.

[aku]

Q has throw invincibility at a certain point coming out of a crouch. Do others have this ability as well, and how can we test for it and find out exactly what it is? (mainly for ESN or someone that can test for that) I would be willing to do the legwork if you can point me in the right direction here.

I’ve heard reports of other characters being able to do the crouch glitch like Makoto, but Q seems to be the easiest to use this with.

[ESN]

Just a repost from another thread.

For the throws inv. for other char than Q, i’ve seen it happened several times with many chars but i’m pretty sure it’s just a matter of range, nothing like Q ducking glitch.
I made a quick test with Q and Makoto: http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew…s&sAction=w&iMove=003&defDis=P1000110P2000110

• frame 6, down is inputted for both chars during 1 frame, no throw inv. for mak after but Q throwable box is now in air (actually, looks like the displayed frames are the ones of his pre jump), so he is not throwable anymore except maybe with air throw stuff
• frame 45, karakusa vs Q glitch, Q wins

That was for the Q glitch. Now:

• frame 97, Q, and a a few frames after, Mak, try to throw, but distance between chars are just a little more than their throw range, so both whiffs
• frame 125, exact same position as previously but Mak is now crouching and Q succesfully throws her (without any kara)

The trick is crouching throwable boxes are wider than standing ones. So, IMO, going back to neutral while someone try to throw may lead to the impression of a throw inv while it’s only a matter of different hitboxes size.
I didn’t check with everyone but so far, this is true for all char i used (half of the cast).
Also, Urien and Q are slower to go to the “wider box” state, 3 frames, while all others go to it instantaneously.

[ESN]

Two things-

So dash recovery can be cancelled. What are all the actions/inputs that can cancel a dash?

Q has throw invincibility at a certain point coming out of a crouch. Do others have this ability as well, and how can we test for it and find out exactly what it is? (mainly for ESN or someone that can test for that) I would be willing to do the legwork if you can point me in the right direction here.

I only used a jump to cancel dashes recovery, no normal/sp/sa/whatever.
But, new version of Game Restaurant mention that Ken can cancel forward dash with an attack 4 frames before jump:
http://gr.qee.jp/01_3rd/01/base/06.html

I checked and this is true. Seems he’s the only one having this though.

If any of you guys want to verify stuff like this, just pick fba-rr, http://code.google.com/p/fbarr/downloads/list, so you can use LUA scripts like hitboxes viewer or macrolua available here: http://code.google.com/p/mame-rr/ (bottom of the page)
I can provide my own scripts as well though they mostly are in a final beta version state (!!!), just ask me.

[Tebbo]

Haha. Still little stuff to be discovered.
What a fun game. Things like that are what makes it so interesting. So many things we can’t really detect specifically. Like Ken being quicker than Ryu. His dash is just barely better and yet he feels so much quicker. This cancelling may be why he feels so much quicker without having a hugely different dash.

Cool.

[WTF-AKUMA-HAX]

Haha. Still little stuff to be discovered.
What a fun game. Things like that are what makes it so interesting. So many things we can’t really detect specifically. Like Ken being quicker than Ryu. His dash is just barely better and yet he feels so much quicker. This cancelling may be why he feels so much quicker without having a hugely different dash.

Cool.

Yeah. Very nice particulars detailed!
But not for Ryu. One less thing Ryu has that Ken has.

Though if I’m not being oblivious to it again (should check out the ESN site in basic stuff thx again)
Ryu gets the 4 frame master class close Fierce, Akuma as well

Ken’s is 6 or at least slower, though he may not need it in MP confirm first. 1 frame faster then theirs.

[Tebbo]

Ryu is also fucking awesome.
Ken is just some dude.

[Chad]

Just a repost from another thread.

For the throws inv. for other char than Q, i’ve seen it happened several times with many chars but i’m pretty sure it’s just a matter of range, nothing like Q ducking glitch.
I made a quick test with Q and Makoto: http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew…s&sAction=w&iMove=003&defDis=P1000110P2000110

• frame 6, down is inputted for both chars during 1 frame, no throw inv. for mak after but Q throwable box is now in air (actually, looks like the displayed frames are the ones of his pre jump), so he is not throwable anymore except maybe with air throw stuff
• frame 45, karakusa vs Q glitch, Q wins

That was for the Q glitch. Now:

• frame 97, Q, and a a few frames after, Mak, try to throw, but distance between chars are just a little more than their throw range, so both whiffs
• frame 125, exact same position as previously but Mak is now crouching and Q succesfully throws her (without any kara)

The trick is crouching throwable boxes are wider than standing ones. So, IMO, going back to neutral while someone try to throw may lead to the impression of a throw inv while it’s only a matter of different hitboxes size.
I didn’t check with everyone but so far, this is true for all char i used (half of the cast).
Also, Urien and Q are slower to go to the “wider box” state, 3 frames, while all others go to it instantaneously.

Interesting, thanks. This may be why Oro (vs Q) will occasionally hop up into his air throw tech animation while Q is teching on the ground.

[Chad]

I only used a jump to cancel dashes recovery, no normal/sp/sa/whatever.
But, new version of Game Restaurant mention that Ken can cancel forward dash with an attack 4 frames before jump:
http://gr.qee.jp/01_3rd/01/base/06.html

I checked and this is true. Seems he’s the only one having this though.

If any of you guys want to verify stuff like this, just pick fba-rr, http://code.google.com/p/fbarr/downloads/list, so you can use LUA scripts like hitboxes viewer or macrolua available here: http://code.google.com/p/mame-rr/ (bottom of the page)
I can provide my own scripts as well though they mostly are in a final beta version state (!!!), just ask me.

Thanks again! I was just wondering if I was missing anything exciting.

[10021985]

Hey everybody, old replay, some questions need explaining.

[media=youtube]9_0MlXngGmg[/media]

Sup! This is a known glitch called "active super freeze bug"
Unfortunately, I couldnt find this video on youtube, but here it is on Google Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9122857412902628128

Basically it occurs if you hit a projectile during super freeze time

[WTF-AKUMA-HAX]

Thank you for the info. ^

Interesting, thanks. This may be why Oro (vs Q) will occasionally hop up into his air throw tech animation while Q is teching on the ground.

I’ve seen this with the Twins as well vs Q. Always looked interesting, “air throw tech” way off the ground.

[WTF-AKUMA-HAX]

Have 2 questions.
Both on the Charge partitioning / times
1 on Parrying system, putting it inbetween charges.

Do “Air to Air hits” cause “hit stun” and will that hit stun allow more time to charge?

Example, air Alex HK hits opponent while holding down back after starting the jump, land and have a downback charge near full very soon. A regular jump, whiff HK, you don’t have the same amount of charge, land charge longer before its ready. So a hit / air parry exchange up there will be better (than no mid-air interactions) if starting to charge in the air during the jump?

The more I write the more I seem wrong about any and all of that.
in spoiler just introspective thinking aloud, not part of the ?[details=Spoiler]Should Go find frame data on charge times, exact characters-moves, jump times, can you charge during jump at all, etc. Am reading back in the thread now, remember some pages and facts / theories. Damn poor Oro vs Urien throw tech = jump style, off ground throw tech, no immediate block if there’s Aegis up. but Makoto can.[/details]

Can you forward parry, while keeping charge?
Then use that (full) charge right away even though you’ve parried and gone to Neutral from charge direction?
Example, Remy high Parry to LOV works simple enough. Charge (full) - parry - continue to forward and punch/kick.

(read it earlier in the thread, how it works, page 4 sonic boom type only forward)

I don’t understand how to do this for a Down to Up charge move. As it now includes, down(back) - parry - (any) up.Shoul you finish in up forward? Most natural, you went past neutral to Parry High.
This feels like an unnatural and complicated motion.
Any way to simplify it? Throwing a cancellable normal in there for more time, and to confirm seems best case.

• new question with all the training restarts-

Does “pre charge” before the Round starts apply to all the same Charge Partitioning rules?

ESN scripts Ryan asked for in old Chun thread, has tools to see charge partitioning if we can get those files installed and running correctly.

Damn, had another question just messing around with this in training mode while typing it out. Damn that shifty eyed green guy in Dudleys stage is creepy with no filters / real arcade scanlines. Oh shit got it.

[Hitomi]

Am I correct in assuming different SAs give different meter amounts per hit? IE using Yang’s SA2, will it take less meter building to be able to use EX Mantis Slashes than Yang’s SA3? Or does SA choice only affect maximum meter capacity?

Is there a link to somewhere that explains how much capacity different SAs give? And if meter gain is heightened or lowered depending on SA choice, is there a link to that too?

[Tebbo]

meter gain has nothing to do with sa choice afaik

ex capacity you can test yourself in all of 5 seconds. sa capacity is noted with a number.
sa choice affects max meter capacity and the amount of meter it takes to be able to use super.

[JAK]

HI ESN

Could you possibly test how quickly you can cancel a hayate. Also if you have the time how soon after cancel does it fully recover

[ESN]

http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/hitboxesDisplay.php?sMode=f&iChar=17&sMoveType=various&sAction=combos&iMove=003
Fastest is 4 frames after hayate launch. Recovery is 10 frames.

Remind me when i tried to get the Chun 100% using some kara hayate cancel during the combo to get some more range lol

[Hol_Horse]

But, new version of Game Restaurant

THIS IS AWESOME NEWS

They have this video up:
[media=youtube]WyMccm-UGt4[/media]

apparently Hugo when landing after being reset in the air is still considered airborn / doesn’t have the low hurtboxes

[Dander]

Have 2 questions.
Both on the Charge partitioning / times
1 on Parrying system, putting it inbetween charges.

Do “Air to Air hits” cause “hit stun” and will that hit stun allow more time to charge?

Example, air Alex HK hits opponent while holding down back after starting the jump, land and have a downback charge near full very soon. A regular jump, whiff HK, you don’t have the same amount of charge, land charge longer before its ready. So a hit / air parry exchange up there will be better (than no mid-air interactions) if starting to charge in the air during the jump?

The more I write the more I seem wrong about any and all of that.
in spoiler just introspective thinking aloud, not part of the ?[details=Spoiler]Should Go find frame data on charge times, exact characters-moves, jump times, can you charge during jump at all, etc. Am reading back in the thread now, remember some pages and facts / theories. Damn poor Oro vs Urien throw tech = jump style, off ground throw tech, no immediate block if there’s Aegis up. but Makoto can.[/details]

Can you forward parry, while keeping charge?
Then use that (full) charge right away even though you’ve parried and gone to Neutral from charge direction?
Example, Remy high Parry to LOV works simple enough. Charge (full) - parry - continue to forward and punch/kick.

(read it earlier in the thread, how it works, page 4 sonic boom type only forward)

I don’t understand how to do this for a Down to Up charge move. As it now includes, down(back) - parry - (any) up.Shoul you finish in up forward? Most natural, you went past neutral to Parry High.
This feels like an unnatural and complicated motion.
Any way to simplify it? Throwing a cancellable normal in there for more time, and to confirm seems best case.

• new question with all the training restarts-

Does “pre charge” before the Round starts apply to all the same Charge Partitioning rules?

ESN scripts Ryan asked for in old Chun thread, has tools to see charge partitioning if we can get those files installed and running correctly.

Damn, had another question just messing around with this in training mode while typing it out. Damn that shifty eyed green guy in Dudleys stage is creepy with no filters / real arcade scanlines. Oh shit got it.

keep out of dem internets

[WTF-AKUMA-HAX]

keep out of dem internets

lol ultradavids math in this topic, for
>one
>jump in
>Q
>combo.

Kurodavid.

Here’s your mission if you choose to accept it:

Speaking of airtime, certain characters stay on the ground when they tech a throw while others are considered airborne. The most common way this has an effect on a match is when you tech Urien’s throw, thrusting you into an Aegis. Makoto will be able to block instantly, while Oro will be hit out of the air and get knocked down. I haven’t tested whether he’s allowed to air parry.

Test air parry in that setup.

[aku]

It’s funny, because Ultradavid actually hated Kuroda’s playstyle. He was more a fan of TK and TM.