Hate is a bandwagon, and Internet people love bandwagons.
For further reference, I recommend checking out SRK’s very own Superman Returns thread, which was the place to be in GD back in 2006. There are several pages of posts with positive feedback on the film, before the hate creeps in. If you asked around today, you’d think that people would rather blow Hitler than admit to liking it.
Next to g00dy i’m THE superman fan of SRK. and I’ve just bought howcase presents Superman volume 4 which is of course the Weisinger era supes, IMO tied with Gardner Fox’s JLA are the two ABSOLUTE BEST comics run in well… history.
Just in case anyone isn’t aware of this. You can read the Superman comic strip featured in Wednesday Comics over at Usatoday.com FOR FREE! In the top bar all you have to do is click on the different weeks (Ex. ‘Week 1 Superman’ followed by ‘Week 2 Superman’ and so on) to read the different strips. As of right now the first 3 strips are up. Can’t rate the story yet but it has been entertaining so far. The artwork is AMAZING! Batman shows up in week 2. :tup:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/2009-07-07-superman1_N.htm
I don’t get modern colorists and their “everything is brown or has brown in it” schtick. But hey, it’s free. I’ll check it out.
Some news on that ongoing super complex Seigels/Shusters/Superman rights trial.
http://blog.newsarama.com/2009/08/12/blog-post-gets-siegels-more-superman/
Within that blog there was a link that talked about Russell Keaton’s involvement (or, non-involvement depending how you look at it) with Superman that I was not aware of before.
http://blog.newsarama.com/2008/08/20/russell-keaton-supermans-fifth-beatle/
RE: Keaton’s scenario, Superman being sent from the future as the last man on Earth would’ve been really interesting. I’m kind of glad they didn’t go that route. Time Travel in fiction tends to be really confusing.
This is a good write-up of the recent legal proceedings:
http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/truth_justice_and_superman_is_totally_ours_you_stinky_siegel_family/
Ok so growing up I always hated Superman cus he just seemed like a douche, with unlimited power. I never read much Superman, though the stuff I did read never really kept me interested. One thing that really stood out to me though was Miller’s Superman in TDK Returns. Some of the things about the character in that book warmed me up to Superman and I got to thinking I should give him another shot. I actually liked him a lot in TDKR. Anyway, I just got done reading “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow” and I wasn’t really clicking with it. Is there just something about Superman that’s hard for me to appreciate or what?
Read All Star Superman
Alan Moore’s Superman stuff is good, but it does depend heavily on the reader’s knowledge of the Superman mythology.
If you’re looking for Superman stuff to check out, here is a handy reference list.
http://ievolvedintothis.com/?p=49
http://ievolvedintothis.com/?p=50
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Superman… Maybe it’s just you.
Whats not to understand. Superman Returns was basically Superman 1 all over again. Alot of people was expecting something to trump Superman 2 and we simply didn’t get that. It was simply a boring ass movie that was well made. Not saying it needs to have a ton of action but truth be told he should’ve been fighting somebody.
Nothing about this is correct. Except the part about it being well made.
goody is correct, as usual.
So what would you say was good about Superman Returns? The one thing I didn’t like about it was that Supes didn’t die.
I liked that it was in 3D in Imax (you have to see it in 3D if you ever get the chance, it’s the only modern super-hero movie that got the 3D treatment in Imax) and it reminded me of the older movies, I felt like a kid again. It had a sense of ‘legacy’ to it also.
Yes like most I’m not sure a love letter to a movie that came out 30 years ago was the right way to go because people who didn’t grow up with the older movies may not get what Singer was trying to do.
Still, Singer’s a great director. The scene where the plane is falling down you generally feel that the people are in danger even though you know in the back of your head Superman will save the day. I can’t say that about a single scene in X-Men 3, which Singer didn’t direct so he could tackle Supes.
I wish Superman Returns got a sequel since the ending isn’t really conclusive to me.
It was no Superman 2 but it was very good.
Perhaps you’d like to read the thread you’re responding to. You don’t even have to go back very far.
Ugh. Hate Superman Returns.
The shit doesn’t even function as a stand alone film. Now, I don’t know that it’d be a good idea to do yet another take on the Superman origin story, but, having seen the Donner film about four years ago, I definitely felt like I was missing something here. Theres zero character development, and emotionally, theres no reason to care about any of these characters.
Now the primary conflict between making good Superman stories is that fact that he’s fucking Superman. Dude can lift giant crystal islands into space and can’t be hurt unless its kryptonite or magic or red suns or whatever. Because Superman can’t be hurt, you have to build tension in a way other than the threat of physical violence to the protagonist. They attempt to do this through his relationship with Lois Lane, but I had no real emotional stake in whether they got together.
Oh Lex…Lex, Lex Lex. for the live-action movies, Superman, Superman II, Superman IV and Superman Returns, Warner Bros neglected every possible valid aspect of Lex Luthor. In these movies, Lex is not a scientist, a businessman or a politician. He’s a fop, an opportunist and a jerk. Dude’s a dumbass His plans are ridiculous, obtuse and fatally short-sighted. I mean, ok so he grows his new continent and drowns half the world’s population. Then what? He is, in fact, the opposite of a genius – he is a man who keeps saying he is a genius. Hes a poser, vain but not in the good way, because he surrounds himself with idiots who can suck up to him. The Lex of the animated show doesn’t have a two-bit ho and a slobbering idiot in a straw boater for a staff, he seeks out and hires the best and the brightest people in the world (a strategy that sometimes backfires for him when they get wise to his plans for universal domination). What does it say if I’m watching the $200-million-plus Superman Returns and I keep wishing I was watching a cartoon(Justice League) instead?
His evil plan is so ridiculous, and the way it resolves is not particularly involving. He’s just sort of defeated and then the movie ends. Luthor and Superman only have one brief scene together, again, Singer seems to be relying on our foreknowledge of their relationship rather than what’s actually present in this film.
When you do a Superman movie, you really only got two options.
Focus on the villains. That why I think Batman Returns works so well, because its a movie about how these people defined themselves in opposition of Batman, and you got three characters who are infinitely more complex and interesting than anybody in Superman Returns.
Show Superman as a God. You can’t show Superman as “Oh, he’s got relationship problems just like us, he’s gets along with his stepparents just like us, he’s such a regular guy!” NO. Superman is NOT a regular joe. He’s fucking SUPERMAN. He’s a GOD. Thats why Supreme, Miracleman, hell even All-Star Superman are so much fun because its open to commentary on what its like to be a God. Superman Returns so desperately wants to be like the Spider-man films, but they can’t because it lacks the emotional pull of seeing a guy who’s a regular guy first and a superhero second. Superman, on the other hand, can do anything he wants, and doesn’t seem to give a shit whether he gets in on with Lois again(and neither does the audience).
So…yeah. Fuck Superman Returns.
If you couldn’t find an emotional point of entry into the story, that’s fine, but I appreciated how the film portrayed the logical next part of the love story that went unexamined by the previous films. By the second one, we know that it isn’t going to work out, but we don’t see what happens when it doesn’t. These are more or less good people in bad circumstances, which is the basis of the film.
The Lex of the movies and the one in the cartoons are two out of countless valid takes on the character. Yes, he is an exceedingly vain opportunist. What’s your point? It is a strength that most characters in the superhero genre are thinly sketched out, because it leaves them open for a variety of interpretations.
The conflict with Luthor is not the primary focus of the film. If Superman Returns has one major flaw, it’s that the filmmakers clearly had an agenda at odds with the usual expectations of a genre film, hence the perfunctory villainous scheme.
Batman Returns is awful. I’ve yet to see a Tim Burton movie, aside from possibly Big Fish, that shows an interest in understanding its characters rather than simply painting pretty pictures. They’re fairy tales, with all the simplicity and one-dimensionality it entails. The most well-developed character in Burton’s Bat-films isn’t the hero or the villains. It’s Alfred.
Bullshit. The only common thread you’re drawing here is that the primary focus of both franchises is the love story, and there’s no reason you can’t tell that kind of story with this character. Go back and read All Star Superman again. Half the point of All Star Superman is that no matter how powerful, amazing, and universally loved he is, he still pines for the affection of one person in particular, so his relationship issues are most definitely on the table.
Still, you’re doing a lot better than most of the armchair critics, whose chief complaints are that there’s too much romance and not enough WWF.
On the current subject, which I find deliriously fascinating, I have some ideas of my own about how the next Superman movie should be. Once I get it together, I’ll probably post some installments about it on my blog.
I will be sure to post it for the critical panel in this thread, for perusal and subsequent evisceration.
Yes, there are a various interpretations of superhero characters, the problem is they used an extremely weak version in Superman Returns. Its like the producers of the film never even read or seen any of Bryne’s Lex, or 2000 era President Lex, or even the animated cartoon universe Lex that work so well, and just went with this version that just so happens to share the same name and is bald(which they didn’t even get right with Gene Hackman, as if to say "Does he HAVE to be bald? I don’t know if Gene’s gonna be up for that).
Luthor still gets a lot of screentime, and with all that running time he’s an incredibly weak antagonist, due to the previously mentioned God awful characterization and completely stupid doomsday plot.
All-Star Superman left the reason he loves Lois up to interpretation (“Well, I guess there are some things I can’t help”), but my theory on while he goes for her in particular that she represents all the parts of humanity he enjoy. She’s pretty and caring, but she’s also cynical, stubborn, and has a knack for getting into chaotic situations(“Lois?” “Don’t ask?”).
I think the major point of All-Star Superman was showing that not only did he love Lois, but everyone, as if Morrison is saying “God loves you. Isn’t that great?” The whole story is filled with different Superman analogues(Super dogs, Alternate Superman, Bizzaro Supermen, Kryptonians, SuperLois, SuperLex, Olympians), but none of them have the heart and boy scout morality of him. It doesn’t shun his superpowers and tries to make him like a regular guy, it embraces them; reinforces them. You can give it to any comic book reader who thinks Superman is “that boring invincible guy” and they’ll get why he’s the greatest superhero of them all. In comparison to Superman Returns, where they’ll be given characters that we’re suppose to know from the 1978 film, a Lex Luthor that isn’t strong and intelligent, but stupid and short-sighted, and a romance thats as flaccid as Anakin/Padme. I almost felt Superman was gonna start bitching about how coarse sand is.
Superman: I hate sand. But you’re not sand. And thats why I love you.