Fake news. Gouken was killed by Akuma in Alpha and the one you see in SFIV is just a mech that’s being piloted by a young anime girl inside him.
6 Likes
I remember watching Sagat’s story progression on youtube.
And, then I just had to take a look at the youtube comments.
99.9% of “SF fans” have no actual clue how the Satsui no Hadou actually functions. More or less the same as how people still believe that Gouki literally takes people’s souls into hell itself to be torn up by demons from within. Or, whatever bullshit that was.
7 Likes
Yes. In their minds in the same way Bison can enter people’s dreams. It also doesn’t change what I said that Kage is anchored to Ryu. Meaning if Ryu were to die, Kage would too because Kage is the manifestation of Ryu’s SNH not the SNH. A dog can move about even if it was on a leash.
Kage is not like Bison or anyone really, he’s a first in the canon. But it is unlikely that he can possess characters like Bison, he is not a phantom or a spirit. He has no soul. He is but a collection of thoughts and feelings, but aimless.
Also Akuma can potentially become Oni, but it is clear from his and Kage’s stories that that isn’t the path he would rather walk, but he is open to its possibility. Akuma does not have the “Ability” to turn into Oni like the Hulk if that is what you are implying.
3 Likes
Doesn’t change that people argued the point when Sagat’s story went public. It was even argued on this forum.
There is also the issue that Sagat had never shown any signs before this point, and his own statements imply that this is the first time he has had such an experience. Yet this happens after he has not only come to terms with his rivalry with Ryu, but also after he’s turned his back on just accepting any path to power. And seemingly mostly come to a state of peace.
Though I guess… Bison and the path to psycho power was blocking the SnH, and he only became vulnerable after leaving that umbrella of protection? Or was it that the two were similar enough that a SnH entity/episode saw no reason to directly go after Sagat until he diverged from that path?
The SNH is a deadly pattern of thinking/feeling that enables a power type of ki. Necalli, Ryu, Akuma, Gouken, Seth, Bison, Nash, and even Sagat all understood it in one way or another. But only Ryu, Akuma, and arguably Oro and Necalli have demonstrated using it.
If Sagat is struggling with thoughts of vengeance and hate, he could in theory tap into the SNH. But can his body withstand it? Will he know what to do with it once he actually was able to muster it? Doubtful.
We also Nash and Ryu talk about the killing intent in Nash’s SF5 character story.
It’s clear that with SF5, Capcom fleshed out the SNH to not be confined to Goutetsu’s teachings. So Sagat’s flirting with the SNH while unprecedented is not that strange in the context of these changes.
1 Like
Agree everything mostly is about common sense pick like Nash Canonspike after having Cammy Canonspike.
Agree also count everytime he indirect hint something but obvious. Then he would claim he never said it. Those were “intentionally” misleading and about wasn’t leaking.
On topic
As of now I still give Capcom a doubt with Kage being either a what if fight with Akuma and Sagat but happens all in Ryu head. I do also accept that his fight could have happen in his physical form or astral form as Capcom intentional want that interpretation to the viewer. So it would be neither correct. Yet I do favor it to actually did happened in physical realm.
And agree everything that is about Sagat having SNH should be thrown away and Kage is the fix of everything that sets everything to SF3 Ryu which is better.
The SnH is the Dark Side.
The Dark Side does not BELONG to the Sith. The Sith can merely tap into it. You don’t need to be a Sith or a Jedi to delve into the Dark Side, you just have access to the Force.
Now switch “Dark Side” int he above sentences to “SnH” and “Sith” to “Nameless Ansatsuken-user” and “the Force” to “Ki techniques”
4 Likes
Random things
XKira:
that 83% failure chart become unfair on the other way, the number does’nt tell the whole story specially considering his recent good streak of then confirmed costumes.
Is not the number itself is about wich stuff he usually actually he’s able to effectively leak (mostly costumes) and what not (the rest)
So essentially can still be a worthy source when know what believe and what ignore
Kage:
It’s not a physical being and it exist/fight only on the spiritual level of Ryu’s soul or other victims.
Sagat story clear show it, the girl CAN’T SEE wtf it’s going on inside Sagat’s soul.
It can travel out of Ryu’s soul through the energy concept of astral projection, something that meditation masters claim they can do*
He’s not an entirely separately being from Ryu, actually it literally represent his sub-conscious dark side.
When Ryu in his story “accept” it’s existence he’s not accepting an alien in his brain (lol), he’s accepting to have a dark side and his new approach is about isolate it through acceptance/knowledge rather that try to fight it refusing, trying to erase something that could not be erased.
Is like accept to have a shirt that you can’t throw away but you’re not forced to wear.
The SnH give it a particular power to it but it’s not the source of it’s mind.
SnH just give voice to the darkest thoughts and words of Ryu’s subconscious
*wich is the concept behind Sim and Bison teleports, they’re so advanced that they can project not only the soul but the matter too
SNH/Ansatsuken:
SnH it’s NOT just the “dark side” that anybody can have.
SnH it’s not just a way to say negative ki, see Psycho Power being another form of negative ki.
SnH is specifically a negative ki “disorder” that can happen specifically to Ansatsuken martial artists.
It’s related to the “hadou way” of utilize ki, and it’s a known thing through Ansatsuken school generations.
In SF world Ansatsuken techniques (like hadouken, srk etc) teach to tap into specific cords of human ki, have access to these specific energy channels open the window to SnH danger
This is why example Gouken did’nt wanted to allow Dan to continue train, as his negative feelings/motivations (after Sagat killed his dad) combined with ansatsuken ki pratices will have likely resulted in a SnH affected individual
In similar way Psycho Power is a deviation from Soul Power way of utilize ki.
4 Likes
TBF the majority of the SF community only has a passing interest in the story and they still believe many misconceptions on SF’s story e.g Cody is just as strong as Oni. At least the view on SF even having a story has become more positive since SF4.
3 Likes
smh Arc System Works stealing ideas yet again
2 Likes
Hey guys! New member here!
Let me just start by saying you guys are doing an incredible job at trying to make sense or piece together the Street Fighter lore. For the past couple of days I’ve been religiously going trough the prior thread to this, having lurked in this one as a guest from about the G/Sagat reveal for 5 and especially early on, pre ASF and the CFN profiles the outsanding job done by bak and later by him and Midgardsorm left me speechless. Of course, with the scans provided by Dark, so shout out to him too. And shout out to Yagami too for his incredibly insightful posts into the oriental themes running trough the series.
I guess I should also introduce myself a little, so here’s a bit of history. I’ve gotten into Street Fighter in my early teens, so I’ve been hooked on it for more than a decade now (I’ll probably be considered a kiddo compared to some of you guys). I’ve always been a fan of Street Fighter’s story, altough for a large amount of time I only pieced together stuff by myself based on endings and such. That is until around… Super SF4’s release when I found the old plot guide. At that time I remember joining both SRK and CU and discussing the story with more than just my own knowledge, albeit lightly (and that account is now lost to time). Of course, eventually I came across Vasili and his weird as hell theories like zombie/robot Gen and Gouken, the Charlie Nash name not being canon and those things always struck me as odd… Happy to see that there’ve been a lot of you combating such ideas from the start and with the dawn of the new Plot Guide it is nice to see one not tainted by such ridiculousness (tho I still have my fair share of respect for Vasili for being up to the task so no ill will should come to him from my side).
Anway, some general facts about my preferences so we know where we stand on from the start (lol):
- favorite characters, in order, Vega/Alex/Cody
- least favorite, fatfuck Rufus (Ingrid doesn’t count cause she’s not a Street Fighter character)
- favorite artstyles, Alpha2 and Second Impact
- I geniunely think SFV’s general story is the best story mode in a fighter (emphasis on MODE)
- I love most of the EX cast, but my dream game is one where every character is playable, so in order to make that happen easier I usually disregard them.
But I digress. Let’s talk about the story and what better way to start than with a question and a theory:
-
Back when Vasili was still active, he proposed the idea that Shin Akuma (aka Akuma not holding back, not CvS Orochi Akuma just to be clear) was actually stronger than Oni. Was there ever a merit to that argument? I basically know that has to be bullshit, but I’d like to hear some of the opposing side arguments, as ridiculous as they may sound.
-
Speculation time, but at this point there can’t be any denial that G and Q are connected in some fashion. My thoery on that is that G is recruiting fighters and turning them into Q’s. Without going into a ton of detail, the main evidence I find for that:
a) G’s win quotes to basically everybody mention how “we are all one” which certainly lends credence to the idea that he conforms to some kind of uniformity. Kidnapping people, dressing them classy, putting them in masks and having them use an incomplete version of his style certainly seems uniform to me!
b) despite G’s demeanor in the story and despite some of the quotes denoting he’s truly just a goof, the encounter with him in the Arcade mode tends to be quite a bit more sinister and show his true face. Not to mention him being a secret fight in the first place, which is usually reserved only for bosses/bad guys.
c) there’s the high possibility that there is more than one Q, since the guy shows up all over the world, many times at the same time. Not only that but G’s concept art basically confirms this, with the girl G design having been on the table. Well… who goes around the world, drawing people to him and earning their trust? Well, the ending shows G doing just that.
Thoughts?
Well, that’s about it for the first post. Sorry for bringing Akuma into this, since I know you guys hate him lol and sorry if the theory has been proposed before, but I did came up with it myself and I don’t remember seeing something like it anywhere else.
11 Likes
In the canon, he’s always Shin Akuma. The only time in the canon one could argue he wasn’t Shin Akuma was in his first fight with Ryu during Alpha 2, when he clearly held back. So what you’re asking is if Akuma is stronger than Oni, and I do not think he is. He could become stronger than Oni one day if his gamble pays off and he doesn’t turn into Oni.
However, Akuma as of SF3:3S is still not in the same league as Oni who would be is in a league of his own with other hypothetical OP characters like Final Bison, and possibly Ryu Final.
This is what a lot of us have surmised also. G turns people into Qs, relieving them of their individuality and offering them unity in his yet-to-be determined collective (read: slavery).
Welcome aboard.
5 Likes
Thanks for the swift reply! And since I haven’t mentioned you in my first post… I’ll just Hail Bison instead!
4 Likes
So just somehow managed to find streams of young justice s3 first 3 episodes. Its ok so far. Animation and artwork clearly arent as good as first 2 seasons.
Story is eh… at the moment. Hoping it picks up. Its not that the action isnt there… Its just… I dont know. Maybe I was expecting more.
I remember writing a similarly long introductory post when I started writing in this thread.
Welcome aboard!
5 Likes
Welcome back man, interesting question you have brought out.
2 Likes
I don’t think the “big feet and hands” transitioned that well in the 3D engines, I don’t mind them at all on characters like Urien (his tall build helps a lot tho) but when I look at Karin hands…
Then again, Rog’s proportions are extremely exagerrated and I find his model one of the best in the game
1 Like
No but honestly welcome to the thread. I used to be just like you. I followed the thread since 2002, lurked around, and hadn’t posted until 2013. I remember the original plot guide well and up until SF4 I had seen it as the one true source of SF story at the time.
Once SF4 came about I had started noticing changes in the way the “official” canon was being handled and I saw people like @yagamifire starting to challenge it thoroughly. After the first plot guide was essentially defunct I saw people wanting to take the chance in making a 2nd one. Some plans came and went but nothing really came to fruition. Thats where me and @midgardsorm came in to try to fix somethings up.
I still respect @vasili10 and I wish he would let me use some of his material for the new plot guide but alas he will not do so. Regardless I have seen this story thread basically come up from asking questions about SF lore to a full community over the course of a decade and more. This is a legit crew of fans. Fans who would, despite it being a fighting game story, debate wholeheartedly over topics concerning SF canon. Nowhere else on the internet can you get an almost 20 yr discussion about SF story, a fighting game story. Pretty dedicated fans if you ask me, and also the best friends a guy could ask for…(besides a dog of course…)
Welcome to the thread… as a new thread postee you get the link to…Nakahira Collection Raw
Enjoy the artwork…(and dialogue if you can read Nihongo)
6 Likes
Agree It was as soon that SF4 was release, I too was a lurker and random poster since 2006 in the original thread which either I do drop by just to ask question or just post something new I find out. I became very active as soon the CFN profiles were posted regularly I missed those so much.
2 Likes