The Super Inevitable Street Fighter V Story Thread

Your missing my point here, I was being fair with Udon yes the change of body physique can make animation inconsistent if they were not done exact. So they would just trace it?

It’s not like you think…

It’s not like this : different well know studio = good animation HD remix.

You can point out every mistake in the works of Udon but it doesn’t mean having another studio would make it HD remix better.

So Udon should just trace? Would that be the same solution a different known studio would do?

You can say a different studio can make it more fluid in movement… those were vague comments which is simply known as animation principle.

This is the mistake… thinking that simply enlarging those exact SF2 sprite with outdated animation techniques is the solution and expecting the exact output as it was.

The thing is changing body phyqiue/volumes is the only thing Udon can do and even without touching it or simply giving it to a better studio that would simply trace the sprite frame by frame exactly. It would still be awful without the modern day animation techniques applied. which I said the problem and it cannot be resolve even with the different studio with the same restriction and limitation.

Man I wasn’t saying it was impressive, what I am saying it is better looking and in-motion that what we got in the final result.

You can criticize it for it’s flaws that are undeniable then fantasize and imagine a more fluid movement HD Remix to a different studio but in reality It is impossible in the way you perceive and suggest things because of the engine and restriction imposed in their creativity.

Because the Udon guys need to workaround the limitation of the outdated fighting game engine they used. And also count in the need to keep the technicality of SF2 game from pro that requires a distinct and particular frames as reference to cancel.

Animation Principles important it made everything beautiful in motion even with restriction to frame counts. Like why SF3 is so good in motion and why even a what if HD remix is an exact trace of the original will still look bad in motion. Have you watched SkullGirls GDC?

Going back to the original topic about you question SFV about proportion changes in animation, those techniques are Animation Principles which are essential in method in animating to make if look fluid even with limited frames.

So every time your talking about fluidity and smoothness in a limited frame count that’s Animation Principles. Animation Principles distort and deformed body parts out of proportion and realistic manner to give an illusion of impact.

Because without Animation Principles applied in animation it would require more frames than usual to make it look fluid and the collision strength would be less emphasized.

SF3 tops every fighting game if were talking about Animation Principles, while SFV tops every fighting games if were talking about intuitive animation.

As if your talking in a very comfortable way of a perspective, as if those were usual thing that has been done by many in the past when it isn’t.

So why would BAMCO which had more money and workforce than Capcom or ARCSYS, Didn’t do it like as easy as you think it is?

Why would BAMCO hesitate? they can benefit from it like doing a lot of fighters for there many shonen jump games, like Naruto, Jojo, HNK, Bleach and etc.

Like I said in the previous comment think of this, BAMCO would need to make partnership with ARCSYS, even they probably have more man power and budget than ARCSYS,

because it’s not as simple like this: Budget + Time = Replicate XRD

AN innovation is not simply Money = Replicate work.

What money can do is pay people to give you the instruction how it works and how it is done, sell you rights of the engine or hire them to create to imagine work you desire with their style.

It’s not that easy that money = replicate others. Capcom can do what Namco did with DBFZ but they cannot as of now create their own engine similar to what ARCSYS had even with the budget.

Even within the boundaries of the existing sprites they could have done a much better work keeping the new sprite consistent between frames of animation. Proportions, details and light sources were all over the place in SSFIIXHDR.

Zangief was probably the worst. For example, check this animation and how the light source changes drastically from one frame to the next, especially noticeable on his legs, while the original is consistent. Position of the scars is also much more jumpy in the remake and some even disappear.

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That Zangief comparison is damning as hell

Sloppy SLOPPY work

FFS, they had the original sprites as reference…

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It’s almost like udon people or something

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The icing on the shitcake has to be Cammy’s mugshot:
cammy_portrait
I mean, why does her eyes remind me of the sloth from Ice Age?

Disgusting

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Yeah, it might be a SFIV situation when there’s no story mode and we have to link individual stories in order to get the picture of what happened (in this case, before SFVI). It could also be a nice opportunity to retcon some of the SFIII events.
If we’re indeed getting 2nd char stories, I’ll be fine with no 2nd cinematic story, but only if we’re close to the end of the game’s lifecycle.

This may be me mis-remembering, but I want to recall reading that their workflow process involved avoiding looking at the sprite. That they worked from silhouettes.

You keep missing my points. The animation was inconsistent for all the reasons I listed beyond the change in body physique. The Zangief sprites mikros posted are an example. The shading goes all over the place, even reversing itself between frames. Zangief’s scars move around. Zangief’s chest hair expands and contracts randomly.

That is on top of the other issues. Again, the Ryu sprite has Ryu’s right hand in the wrong position. In one of the first T.Hawk images posted, because they didn’t understand T.Hawk’s hand positioning, they drew his foreground hand to be physically much smaller than his background hand. (I also want to recall T.Hawk’s thumbs were reversed at one point in the WIP art.) How is Sagat’s animation supposed to flow right when his leg changes length not even because of intentional body physique changes, but because the artist didn’t look close enough at the original sprite to even tell what kind of kick it was?

As for the copy-pasted Revival heads that they used, they were sometimes used to replace heads that were looking a different way and viewed at a different angle. They even went as far as to redraw the angle that T.Hawk’s body was being viewed from in order to try to get it to match the Revival head they were using.

As I’ve said, the Udon work is so badly suited for the task that you can’t even begin to use it to judge whether the task itself is impossible.

Can you create a convincing art forgery with materials bought at a local craft shop? Perhaps yes and perhaps no. But you don’t say “No, and here is the proof” while holding up a copy of the Mona Lisa that you had a random person on the street create.

Even random people on the internet created “better” versions of Udon’s HD Remix art. Fixing anatomy mistakes. Doing better jobs of bulking up physique. And even producing bits that animated better.

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My only point is the importance of Animation Principle in SFV, which involves the exaggeration and morphing of body parts to convey a better visual in motion.

I agree with everyone that HD remix was that bad in terms of animation and even some art, I don’t even said it looks good and I used it as an example that the process of modern day animation which make it bad in motion not just the change of body volumes like you mention and I agree with that also.

Your critique to HD remix animation is valid too, I don’t disagree with it, Yet. I believe it is the lack of Animation Principle in the process is a major factor that it looks so bad along with the technical limitations. I believe it is important specially in modern day animation that is into high resolution.

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So guys, is anybody else kind of disappointed Capcom didn’t do a special box set/limited edition for the series’ 30th anniversary?

It’s weird - for the 15th anniversary, they just released a collection with Alpha, SF2 and SF3 on the PS2 and called it a day (although I think that release was pretty near packaging, even if PS2 was garbage for fighting games)

then for the 20th anniversary, they released some merch like an artbook, no collection/games as a celebration

Then for the 25th anniversary, they went ALL FUCKING IN with this amazing thing. It had all the games, original soundtracks and fan remixes, an artbook, all kinds of shit, not to mention the tournament they held with several different games and the branded car. Real effort was put in here

Now, for the 30th anniversary they just outsourced some arcade ROMs to Digital Eclipse with kind of pisspoor online and lacking features, although the collection itself is neat and I’m glad I bought it just recently

Anybody else wishes Capcom also went out like for the 25th anniversary? They could’ve done so much more with it too - in addition to the 12 games in SF30AC, why not also add Ultra since it’s already on PS4, SFVAE with the Season 3 pass, package in additional DLCs like costumes and stages, add more soundtrack discs, supplement the artbook for SFV, etc?

Maybe they just like the non-even years more and will do an ultimate box for the 35th anniversary

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I just wish that they:
-Gave us a choice to switch between arranged OST for the first two Alpha games and SF3:NG
-Added Cammy to Alpha 2
-Added Gill+Shin Akuma to the SF3 games
-Based Alpha 3 on the Naomi version rather than the CPS2 version

None of that seemed impossible for them to do. Even the PS2 collections did most of that.

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I just wanted them to give us Alpha 3 Max and Alpha 2 Gold, both with online multiplayer. Was it really too hard? Christ, they could’ve just used the PSP ports or whatever

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I understand why they discourage the other alpha 3 but they should have compensate with the switch version which is more casual.

Me … I want SF4 for switch with Karin, Nash, Mika, Urien, Maki, Sodom, Eagle and Violent Ken.

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Honestly, I’m surprised they haven’t ported USF4 to Switch. Especially considering how well Ultra Street Fighter 2 sold.

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I’m not too sure about it selling “well”. Capcom said that if performed well enough, they’d consider porting it to other platforms. As you can see, that’s still not the case to this day. Not that there’s much of a sense in doing so now since SF30AC exists, but still

What really perplexed me was the 4 costumes they released. Really thought there should have been more.

Hard to top that collection.

I think it’s still fairly available online, just as expensive as it was back then.
I’d really like to try getting one some time.

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TBF, I’d rather have all of them having online multiplayer. Especially since ironically Alpha 2, the more competitively viable game got dumped over Alpha 3.

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Interesting question I want to pose to the story community. Is the theory of Kage being a sentient corporeal form separate entity just as bad as the one time theory of Gouken and Gen being risen from the dead zombies of S.I.N. I’m seeing a lot of Eng and Jap posts stating that Kage is in fact such an entity and it almost seems like the whole zombie Gen and Gouken theory that was going around here a long time ago…@vasili10. From what we know just from the story mode we know this really isn’t the case but since the character profile states they are separate most people all over have stated this to be the case.

So is this the new zombie theory only stated from a professional standpoint? If there is a story mode 2 will they explain how Kage became a legitimate separate entity and if they don’t how will the fandom community explain what Kage actually is?

Any thoughts? Especially from the seniors of the community I’m interested in your take on all of this?

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My take is that Kage is a spirit that mostly manifests in Ryu’s, Sagat’s and Akuma’s minds where metaphorical battles take place. I’m not sure if he can also materialize in the real world, but even then I’d think of it as a spirit representing the Satsui no Hado rather than a corporeal entity somehow born out of Ryu’s actual shadow.

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