after you block lk SK,
if block his SK point blank, you are still in range for his c.lkxxscissor follow up, which will beat every normal guy has because guy’s quickest normal is 4f and bison’s c.lk is 3f. you can do a lk tatsu if he is really obvious with c.lkxxscissor but this is very risky for you. the least risk way to escape this situation is to backdash. he can beat that with an immediate scissor kick after the block (risky for him) or ex psycho crusher - both are options that require him to dedicate to beating your backdash. there is a c.lkxxscissor os lk scissor kick option select he can do but many bisons don’t know about this or use it
the other option is to block SK, wait for him to push you OUT of range of his c.lkxxscissor with another c.lkxxscissor (depending on the range he might be able to make you block c.lkxxscissor twice though), or push you out of range of c.lkxxscissor with a st.hk. anyways, my point is once you are out of range of c.lkxxscissor after he tries to sk loop you, you can beat alot of his follow up with st.mp (5 frame startup). bison’s st.hk and st.mk are 6 frame startup, and an immediately performed naked scissor kick will lose to st.mp. the trouble starts when bison begins to walk back to bait your normal (st.mp in this case) and then attacks you when you whiff. if he starts to bait you by walking backwards, this is your cue to jump in on him because he will be at a range where his st.hk and c.hp will fail as anti airs.
be careful about blocking as well because a common option after blocked sk is his (very excellent) dash in throw.
other notable mentions as options after blocking sk are: c.hk (slide) under and hit his st.hk and st.mk, but it will lose to scissor kick (so very bad), and c.mk, which people use to beat scissor kick. haven’t used it much myself
if bison is afraid to do follow up st.hk (bison’s pre-emptive anti air) after scissor kick because he gets stuffed doing it, you should have an opportunity to jump in on him (important to take advantage of). bison is unable to anti air very well if he doesn’t pre-emptively anti air you at this range.
also take advantage of neutral jumps to beat scissor kicks. if the bison gets predictable with scissor kicks, isn’t using st.hk to anti air, or has pushed you out of st.hk range (this is a golden opportunity for you, try to learn at what range after sk that he cannot st.hk your jumps), you can neutral jump and beat him if he scissor kicks.
In my previous post, I mentioned that I would start a thread for Guy’s match ups in Arcade Edition. However, as I go through this thread while looking for match up details, I feel guilty for leaving out the discussions that take place because some provide very good insight. Therefore, for the AE match up thread, I’m thinking about taking a new direction and focusing a little more on these discussions. What does everyone think?
I’m trying to figure out how we’d be able to preserve and focus on these discussions without organization getting out of hand (clutter). Anyone have any ideas?
were you thinking of doing something like Air’s blog? That might work but I still want things for quick reference. I look at my phone on the nett before a match sometimes to get quick pointers. What might also work is make a new punishment thread with the same format as this one and then have a match up thread with discussions and strategies kind of how Air does it and even EmblemLord.
No, what Air is doing on his blog is what I hoped we would be doing for our write ups. I just wish people could see the discussions that happen when someone posts new info in the thread. The questions and replies are really interesting (at least to me) because it shows various perspectives and thought processes on different match ups.
Thanks I really appreciate the time you took to answer this, one more question, I know you can punish Forward and Rh SK with the 4 hit Target combo, but sometimes hes just too far away when I go for it, any way to really tell when hes free for punishment? Thanks in advance
im not sure, but i think one of the other sub forums has threads for VS bison, VS ryu, etc. and any future discussions can take place in there and they won’t get lost as badly since they are character specific forums. it would be a nightmare moving it over. i guess we could assign people to be in charge of vs character forums and try to copy and paste/link all the info about a certain character in the first few posts of each thread.
and yea aleri_xv it’s tough, bison can use mk scissor kick and space it to be safe (and will probably only use it in this case). the only time you will ever punish bison’s MK scissor kick is if they use it to combo after c.lkx3 combos and they drop the combo, or if they use HK scissor kick and drop their BNB combo. not really sure how to punish in these situations because i dont run into them often
you can’t really punish bison’s moves very easily. there are some punishes listed in the first page but i think the most important one is to EX hozanto if you block EX psycho crusher. in general you won’t really be punishing bison with ff chain kind of like how you punish ryu’s srk.
LOL understandably so, Just some knowledge I would like to have you know?
I appreciate the help everyone, I have an upcoming tourny in which I plan to use Guy for the first time ( was a pretty well known Rog player for a year and a half) and I know for sure there will be Dictator players there, oh and Guile players too, FUCK the Guile and Dictator matchups, the two hardest in my opinion.
I’m having trouble with a Guile player I used to be able to beat, but now he uses U1 against me, cant rely on Elbow drop during wakeup once he has Ultra. Also mk Tatsu is useless if he try to chip me with it, all I can do is block the first wave, backdash the second and punish, provided I’m still alive.
I’ve done some testing against Guile and he seems pretty vulnerable to forward throw> fw jump x 2. Crossing up wiith MK or doing the elbow drop very late can be pretty hard to block for guile - all version of flash kick whiff from my testing.
Guile definitely felt like one of the bad matchups for Guy, but with time i’ve been able to fight better against him. His lack of mix ups puts him at a disadvantage and if Guy can get him in the corner, you can turn the tide.
If you can bait an ultra 1 from him on wakeup, I’ve LP bushin flipped Guile out of Ultra 1 before. I have a replay of it saved on my HD. Granted, that’s a gimmick. But like another said before me, I’ve also elbow dropped them out of Ultra 1 with the right timing as well.
arg, i’m having alot of trouble playing footsies with zangief.
i think the #1 reason why i’m dying is because i’m using slide too much against zangief. so i need to stop doing that.
but aside from that, i’m having trouble anti airing his j.hp without ex tatsu. i think that makes a huge difference. i think it’s probably because i’m trying to anti air with c.mp too late. zangief’s hitbox is so big i can actually hit him when i think i can’t.
I don’t know if this is a personal thing, but Sagat lately feels like a really bad matchup for Guy. Once he starts his projectile spamming, you’re forced to move forward and jump. On reaction he can catch you with the kara uppercut which is crazy. More so even if he trades with uppercut against Guy’s jump ins, he gets a “free” fadc without meter, forward roundhouse - ultra - pain.
I’m not sure what a Guy player can do if his projectiles are on point - along with his DP reactions. It feels like Honda with projectiles.
Faking a jump in with elbow drop seems viable, but how far can Guy go with that strategy alone?
Big gamble, not to mention an EX DP will beat Guy’s EX grab from my experience. As for AE, I don’t really see how this match is gonna be any easier unless you’ve somehow built a lot of meter without taking a beating.
I don’t remember if Sagat’s uppercut would trade with people’s jump in’s in SF4 - but the fact that it trades in Super is not a nerf - the trade ends his uppercut animation and he can follow up with ultra instead. Really if it wasn’t for this, the match would be much more balanced. He doesn’t even need to be ultra fast at reacting with DP, the later the better, cos it’ll just freaking trade. I don’t mind getting uppercutted once or twice in the round for jumping in, but getting ultrad is too much.
Heck maybe I should empty jump ex grab each time to be “safe” so there’s no trade lol.
