Yeah, that’s in the official YBH errata like I mentioned (and has been in place for years now), which can be found here: http://www.inhgroup.com/item/st2/errata.php
Well, what do you know? I just performed the test myself using Ryu’s cl.LP against Chun Li’s df.HK in arcade ST on Kawaks. If Chun does a point-blank df.HK and Ryu walks forward, the df.HK will miss (characters will switch sides). How soon Ryu starts walking forward while the df.HK is making the aerial arch determines how far he can go (if he moves early, he get go further because Chun is still positioned slightly more to the left at the start of the animation). This lets me get the perfect horizontal distance to be able to hit the corner of Chun’s arm but not her lower body (according to both hitbox pictures). If anybody else wants to test, you should start moving Ryu forward when Chun is around the 11pm position of her arch.
Now, when I throw Ryu’s LP as Chun descends on the other side, it’s still close enough to be a cl.LP. I had both Ryu’s cl.LP and Chun’s df.HK YBH and HDR hitboxes in front of me as I advanced frame by frame. And sure enough, as Chun fell, when the cl.LP reached the corner of the arm (visible in HDR’s hitboxes but not shown in YBH), Chun would always get hit.
So that’s a great catch by blitzfu. It’s pretty amazing we progressed from making sure our understanding of frames was correct to now showing that even the legendary Yoga Book Hyper bible still has at least 1 incorrect hitbox not mentioned in the errata. If anybody discovers more differences between YBH and HDR hitboxes, share away.
So you memorized a bunch of japanese squiggly text that you have no idea how to decipher?
/assumes you aren’t fluent in japanese.
Isn’t this pretty huge?
I’ve never played ST, but even I’ve heard of the legendary YBH.
Wow, those are some massive errors. I thought it was gonna be a tiny difference of a few pixels here or there, but those are huge differences in the hitboxes. I never knew YBH had errors, thanks for the link Ganelon.
Thanks for the tests. I was starting to think that Dreamcast ST’s hitboxes are different from Arcade ST’s hitboxes. It’s good to know that there are no hitbox differences between them…or are there…?
Some more Chun Li Neckbreaker specifics: (taken with a DVD burner at 60fps SD and comparing Classic mode HDR to Remixed mode with Turbo 0, using HDR sprites)
Classic Neckbreaker travels forward 56 pixels, while Remixed travels 42.
I verified that the damage hitbox is the same size +/- a pixel, as Rufus mentioned.
The blue hitbox in Classic mode looks more like the Remixed one than the YBH one. I didn’t look exact sizes, though.
Both are 50 frames long and have 36 startup frames, so no change there.
Strangely enough, it looks like the last Remix hitbox extends 35 pixels above the ground, but the Classic one extends 36 pixels above the ground. This seems like it would be more likely to hit low, rather than preventing it. Could someone else verify this?
Also, no one’s mentioned it, but I noticed in the dipswitch settings Chun used to be able to throw by holding up, but can not by default in Remix.
Deejay’s slide is incorrect in yoga book hyper as well
I am very interested in this!
Well I’m not the best Guile player in the world but…
Guile’s new roundhouse flashkick has pretty nice invincibility and can be used to guess punish Chun-Li and shotos whenever you get stuck in a corner… but piano your flashkicks and get this as a reversal on wakeup, you just put yourself in the corner but it is not punish like intended since it travels fairly far unless your opponent has a long range super… a long range option either makes his matches easier or has little impact on them.
The new super motion makes comboing into it too practical(one easy combo is crossup lk, jab x2, super motion+jab~short) as well as using it as an anti-air, although it was intended as removing it due to it being an “execution barrier”, well that and the changes made the super allows it to juggle better.
Overhead kicks make Guile’s mixup game in the corner way more powerful… but that was intended though(I think) and this thread seems to ask for unintended consequences…
All in all though I conclude that he’s not that much different of a character though, the nerfs that his harder matches received make him a better character…
Any other thoughts on Guile’s matches, I suck compared to most players on this board lol…
Thanks. Yep, that’s another error.
Yup, same results when I tested in arcade ST: HDR hitboxes are right and YBH is wrong. So for everyone who wished HDR had never been created, well, maybe this source of knowledge will change your mind.
My assumption is that the YBH authors only saw some sides of the hitboxes in their debug version (as it seems to show behind the colored lines) and had to still guess where the boxes extended to. In most cases, the vast majority of hitboxes are fairly self-explanatory so they’re correct but due to time constraints, they probably didn’t perform as much checking as they wanted, hence these errors. And everyone except some Zangief player just went on their way assuming YBH was authoritative so the errata never covered it.
So Rufus actually has the most comprehensive hitbox guide around (although I don’t think it covers ST differences yet).
I’d be really interested in seeing what’s changed between ST and HDR. The one thing I’ve noticed (and I’ve said this several times now, so sue me :P) is that the vulnerable (blue) hitbox for Sagat’s low tiger shot is not the same as O.Sagat OR N.Sagat. These are some things that merit examination, imo, and is a part of why I wanted this thread in the first place (although I didn’t mean it to be the only purpose, haha).
^^It would be nice to compare O.Sagat’s Shot hitboxes with N and R.Sagat.
I am not fluent in Japanese, but I certainly have an idea on how to decipher it, and did just that. I have it about 95% deciphered.
That is where I found most of the YBH errors. If you look at the book in its entirety, 99% of it is accurate. I’d still happy to have it rather than not have it at all.
Rufus certainly has the most comprehensive HDR info. he did a GREAT job with it. 
http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/misc/tigershots.html
Remixed tiger shots is mostly in between the old and new ones.
Oh wow, I didn’t realize that the High Tiger Shot on R.Sagat was different too. The low tiger shot is obvious, cos it’s right where the hand is. Damn, good find!
I know its unrealistic for one guy to do, but a comparison like that for every move in the game between old, new, and remixed would be a wonder of the world.
Very, very, verrryyyy nice!! Thanks, Rufus. :lovin:
Like you pointed out in your edit Rufus, the body hitboxes on the High Shots are exactly the same as O.Sagat (there’s less vulnerability at the feet, so if a High Shot whiffs, R.Sagat is not as easily low-hittable as N.Sagat). I’m glad to see Sirlin left it like that.
Actually, R. Sagat’s upper hitbox goes to the second wrap on his wrist like N Sagat’s, and he’s slightly less vulnerable on the back knee (O. Sagat’s hitbox goes higher).