Dude, you know what I mean. I already knew about his arm hitboxes being different from O.Sagat. What I meant by “body hitboxes” was his lower body. I didn’t know about the back Knee though, thanks. The back Knee on a High Shot seems to be a blending of O.Sagat and N.Sagat, so R.Sagat actually has the best of both worlds when it comes to lower body hitboxes.
I did a little analysis of Rufus’s High Tiger Shot pictures, and compared the hitboxes. I didn’t do one for the low shot, cos the only difference is in the arm during the frames where he’s throwing the fireball.
So, here you go:
http://www.rpgclassics.com/staff/SG/shotcomparisons.shtml
List:
- O.Sagat’s lower leg hitbox is shifted downward for N/R.Sagat.
- N.Sagat’s lower leg hitbox shrinks during the animation for the High Tiger Shot, making this hitbox different for all three iterations.
- N.Sagat’s lower leg hitbox also widens to cover his front leg. O. Sagat’s and R.Sagat’s front legs are invulnerable.
- O.Sagat’s extended arm on the third animation is just slightly smaller than N/R.Sagat.
I asked him if he was going to do that a few months ago and he said probably not. Which is understandable since it is a hella lot of work.
Nice, I missed some of those differences. Good eye Skankin. It’s too bad there aren’t a lot of great Sagat players around, they could probably give us some insight into his changes. I’ve been using Sagat a lot lately, and being a mainly Ryu and Ken player, it’s not that hard for me to pick up and play Sagat. But I’m no Sagat pro, so keep that in mind as you read this post.
Sagat’s Changes
I think his changes work exactly as intended. The only thing I’m not sure about (since I was never much of an O.Sagat or N.Sagat player) is whether his Shot recoveries are actually better than N.Sagat. But I’ll leave that to the Sagat pros to comment on. As for the other changes:
New Shot recoveries:
-his recovery seems to be the same as Ryu, but overall his fireball is still better than Ryu IMO, in the sense that his Shot travels faster than Ryu. Sagat can still get a 2-hit Shot combo from close to full screen (meaty slow Shot, fast Shot, Ryu can’t do that), so this wasn’t changed from ST. Although N.Sagat could do the 2-hit combo too, and from what little I played of O.Sagat it’s really easy for him to do this combo. So maybe I think his recovery should have been even slightly better than it is now…? But it’s fine as is too.
Better hitboxes on the Shots:
-very nice change, especially the Low Shot. This makes Sagat harder to hit from full screen and really helps vs everybody trying to jump in on him. Doesn’t make him too strong either IMO.
1-hit Fierce Uppercut:
-more damaging than N.Sagat IMO, which is good, but not as damaging as O.Sagat, I don’t think. IDK for sure, but either way, I prefer it to the weird 5-hit Uppercut of N.Sagat. 1-hit has a better “ouch” factor IMO. LOL
Super can now be performed as a reversal attack:
-this was an obviously needed change, no implications here other than giving Sagat more options on wakeup and after blockstun, which is great.
Super travels farther and always knocks down:
-very good change, doesn’t have any unintended consequences. Tho maybe this is why it whiffs on a closely crouching Cammy…? IDK if N.Sagat had this whiffing property, prolly did too, but I’ll leave that to the pros to comment on. Though it would be nice if it didn’t whiff on any crouching character (same goes for Dictator’s Super). But the increased range does allow him to punish from about 3/4 screen range, where before it was only 1/2 screen range, which is cool.
Juggling Tiger Knee:
-very nice change, gives Sagat an opportunity to create some space and move his opponent into the corner, great for matches vs grapplers like Zangief and Hawk. I don’t think it’s overpowered, the damage and dizzy was also reduced from ST, so it balances out. I find that doing a 3-hit juggle brings Sagat too close to the opponent (I like staying far away to snipe ppl with Shots = J), but you can just do a 1 or 2-hit juggle and then walk back while your opponent wakes up and then resume the sniping, so it’s all good. = J
New TK motion:
-not a huge change, same as it is in the Alpha series, and is better for combos and juggles IMO. Also it’s faster to perform than the old TK motion IMO.
Can cancel st Strong but not 2nd hit of st Short or Forward (O.Sagat could cancel all those):
-cancelling st Strong is not that big a deal, but it does help, especially in tight situations where going for a reversal throw whiffs and you got a st Strong instead, and if you’re fast enough, you can cancel that into a Shot, Uppercut, TK, etc, so it’s good. Not being able to cancel the 2nd hit of st Forward is a good thing, but I’m torn about not being able to cancel st Short. This was too good for O.Sagat, and I understand why Sirlin decided to remove it, but R.Sagat is nowhere near the monster O.Sagat was. IMO he’s just a little better than N.Sagat, so I think that cancelling the 2nd hit of st Short would have been nice to have. Though he doesn’t need it, I don’t think it would have overpowered him.
Overall IMO, Sagat is a lot better than N.Sagat, but is also far from being O.Sagat, which is prolly exactly what Sirlin intended. Though I would have had him closer to O.Sagat than he is now, but overall, I think Sirlin did a fine job with R.Sagat. Also forgot to mention that R.Sagat can cross up with j Forward (which O.Sagat couldn’t do, but N.Sagat could), which really improves his pressure game. If you don’t know, this crossup cannot actually be blocked as a crossup (it’s like Dictator’s j Forward), it has to be blocked the normal way. I found this out the hard way. LOL
Hey damn good thread. It definitely does more than to describe the basic contrasts from ST vs HDR but illustrates the changes more thoroughly on a more technical insight from a lot of great players.
Speaking of great, I’ve been meaning to say great job in getting HDR in the SRK wiki section. It was long overdue…I see there’s still a lot of work that needs to be done. Can’t wait to see a lot of the consensus details from this forums migrate over to the wiki. Good to see everyone is still passionate although I hardly ever see you guys online these days. 
^^Thanks Ego. Hopefully I’ll see more of you online. Also, get a Wiki account and put up some stuff. It should be awesome once all is said and done. = J
I’ll add one thing that Coth didn’t mention.
Fei Long Changes
- CW Motions changed to QCF
A. Easier to perform for players who had a hard time with the older motion (Like me!)
Implications
- QCF motion has now given Fei Long an option select for escaping crossups. Sometimes a CW will come out, other times a Flame Kick with a 50/50 chance will hit in the correct direction.
Well, I actually had it as the last thing :lol: My implication was different though.
I recently worked out that the cancel window for 'sim’s super is now 3 instead of 7 frames.