The Street Fighter V Lounge: We all gotta chill 'til the end of April

[Quark]

I mean FANG is also the worst character in SFV and Xian won tournaments with him…

well yeah the game is relatively balanced aside from a few matchups. the problem is that capcom achieved that balance by stripping out fun+powerful things and making most characters play very similarly

[Shahenzan]

The tier gap is much smaller in Revelator though, not to mention that every character is viable. If I remember it right, the worst matchup in Rev is a 6.5-3.5. Probably Zato bodying someone, but I can’t remember who. Maybe it was Potemkin.

the worst matchup in xrd is easily sin v pot
thats a truly shitty matchup

[Naeras]

Slayer is arguably the worst character in Xrd, and he won Anime Ascension yesterday.

You can balance a game by making every character be able to do strong unique stuff.

The tier gap is much smaller in Revelator though, not to mention that every character is viable. If I remember it right, the worst matchup in Rev is a 6.5-3.5. Probably Zato bodying someone, but I can’t remember who. Maybe it was Potemkin.

It’s not about everyone being strong. Everyone needs to be functional. There are characters that you point at in SFV and say unironically “I don’t know what you should be doing.” or “You should do X, but your tools are clearly subpar and they can’t function.” This is what leads to the general feeling that SFV balance is lulzy. Urien is strong, but he’s beatable. The problem is that there are characters that can’t really beat anything reliably.

That leads me to a question. Who is an average character in SFV? Who has a reasonable gameplan (No X-Factor) and the tools to reasonably achieve it? I’d bet on Cammy, but I don’t play her, so I can’t be sure.

There are matchups in Rev that are clear 7-3s or worse, but that’s less about character power level and more about how the characters interact. Obviously characters like Axl and Potemkin are by design going to have some lopsided matchups. And even those bad matches are winnable, since there are a lot of small things you can do to tilt things in your favor if you’re good enough.

[Volt]

The tier gap is much smaller in Revelator though, not to mention that every character is viable. If I remember it right, the worst matchup in Rev is a 6.5-3.5. Probably Zato bodying someone, but I can’t remember who. Maybe it was Potemkin.

the worst matchup in xrd is easily sin v pot
thats a truly shitty matchup

Figures. Sin really can break Pot’s approaching tools.

Slayer is arguably the worst character in Xrd, and he won Anime Ascension yesterday.

You can balance a game by making every character be able to do strong unique stuff.

The tier gap is much smaller in Revelator though, not to mention that every character is viable. If I remember it right, the worst matchup in Rev is a 6.5-3.5. Probably Zato bodying someone, but I can’t remember who. Maybe it was Potemkin.

It’s not about everyone being strong. Everyone needs to be functional. There are characters that you point at in SFV and say unironically “I don’t know what you should be doing.” or “You should do X, but your tools are clearly subpar and they can’t function.” This is what leads to the general feeling that SFV balance is lulzy. Urien is strong, but he’s beatable. The problem is that there are characters that can’t really beat anything reliably.

That leads me to a question. Who is an average character in SFV? Who has a reasonable gameplan (No X-Factor) and the tools to reasonably achieve it? I’d bet on Cammy, but I don’t play her, so I can’t be sure.

There are matchups in Rev that are clear 7-3s or worse, but that’s less about character power level and more about how the characters interact. Obviously characters like Axl and Potemkin are by design going to have some lopsided matchups. And even those bad matches are winnable, since there are a lot of small things you can do to tilt things in your favor if you’re good enough.

But that’s the thing. Every character is viable. They’ll have trouble executing their gameplan of course, that’s what a bad matchup is, but they’re still functional.
Look at Pot vs Axl for example, Pot can get in. Hammerfall Break still functions, but Axl is aware of that and is looking to zone it out. Pot on the other hand can bait Axl out and Air Missile in. Or Blitz Axl’s pokes and Hammerfall in. Hard, but doable.
(Disclaimer: Hypothetical example. I’ve only played Sign and I’m not that good at it.)

[Gabri3l_WHOA]

The tier gap is much smaller in Revelator though, not to mention that every character is viable. If I remember it right, the worst matchup in Rev is a 6.5-3.5. Probably Zato bodying someone, but I can’t remember who. Maybe it was Potemkin.

the worst matchup in xrd is easily sin v pot
thats a truly shitty matchup

Spoiler

Beak driiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiivaaaaaaaaaah

[Valoon]

Akuma:
Buff to 1000 Health. I don’t think his current design makes sense to have lowest health.

I hope they don’t do this. This is kinda Akuma thing to be a glass canon. They just need to bring up the canon part.

[Nobus3r1]

I mean FANG is also the worst character in SFV and Xian won tournaments with him…

well yeah the game is relatively balanced aside from a few matchups. the problem is that capcom achieved that balance by stripping out fun+powerful things and making most characters play very similarly

Agree wholeheartedly on your second statement. First statement I’m not so sure. I want to see more high level Guile before I sign off on ‘relatively balanced’ as I suspect that he shits on a few characters way worse than seems apparent at the moment (mostly due to a lack of data).

[Vhozite]

Slayer is arguably the worst character in Xrd, and he won Anime Ascension yesterday.

You can balance a game by making every character be able to do strong unique stuff.

I thought Potemkin was considered the worst?

[OceanMachine]

Slayer is arguably the worst character in Xrd, and he won Anime Ascension yesterday.

You can balance a game by making every character be able to do strong unique stuff.

The tier gap is much smaller in Revelator though, not to mention that every character is viable. If I remember it right, the worst matchup in Rev is a 6.5-3.5. Probably Zato bodying someone, but I can’t remember who. Maybe it was Potemkin.

I don’t think one game is more balanced than the other tbh, even in the current state of SFV I can hardly see anything more than a 6.5-3.5. 7-3s are often exaggerations.
The difference is that in Xrd every character has an original gameplan and some retarded BS tools that make them fun to play. Like, Pot is low tier and has the most ass mobility in the game, but has a move that knocks you down from ANYWHERE on the screen, anti-projectile tools, an armored move to get in, etc; Dizzy is ass too but she has great mobility, a half screen 2D and like 90 setup tools, etc. Even the most “BS” characters in SF5 like Urien, Laura or Guile are very mild in comparison.
I mean I can lose and get very salty against Leo’s bad MUs, but each time I land his parry or blow up an oki IAD with his FK it makes me feel great.

[Plaid_Unicorn]

I think Guile is more “S1 chun” than chun actually turned out to be.

That being I think the game is still pretty well balanced

[Volt]

I mean FANG is also the worst character in SFV and Xian won tournaments with him…

well yeah the game is relatively balanced aside from a few matchups. the problem is that capcom achieved that balance by stripping out fun+powerful things and making most characters play very similarly

Agree wholeheartedly on your second statement. First statement I’m not so sure. I want to see more high level Guile before I sign off on ‘relatively balanced’ as I suspect that he shits on a few characters way worse than seems apparent at the moment (mostly due to a lack of data).

Like who?

Speaking of Guile, I think Guile will be a pretty bad matchup for Kolin. Sure, double jump is a thing, but so is baiting it and Flash Kick/AA Button/Air Throw. Gief might be a problem as well.

Sim on the other hand might be free. Concept-wise of course. It’s hard to tell with an incoming patch.

[Vhozite]

Slayer is arguably the worst character in Xrd, and he won Anime Ascension yesterday.

You can balance a game by making every character be able to do strong unique stuff.

The tier gap is much smaller in Revelator though, not to mention that every character is viable. If I remember it right, the worst matchup in Rev is a 6.5-3.5. Probably Zato bodying someone, but I can’t remember who. Maybe it was Potemkin.

I don’t think one game is more balanced than the other tbh, even in the current state of SFV I can hardly see anything more than a 6.5-3.5. 7-3s are often exaggerations.
The difference is that in Xrd every character has an original gameplan and some retarded BS tools that make them fun to play. Like, Pot is low tier and has the most ass mobility in the game, but has a move that knocks you down from ANYWHERE on the screen, anti-projectile tools, an armored move to get in, etc; Dizzy is ass too but she has great mobility, a half screen 2D and like 90 setup tools, etc. Even the most “BS” characters in SF5 like Urien, Laura or Guile are very mild in comparison.
I mean I can lose and get very salty against Leo’s bad MUs, but each time I land his parry or blow up an oki IAD with his FK it makes me feel great.

Yeah I get mad at shit playing Pot but he can kill in like two good reads its hilarious.

[Aquakarin]

Slayer is arguably the worst character in Xrd, and he won Anime Ascension yesterday.

You can balance a game by making every character be able to do strong unique stuff.

You don’t have to be flashy to be unique or strong. Everyone in SFV has a specialty and you can’t look at any two matchups the same way.

[ribu]

I think GG handles character balance well, like people have said characters have their own unique strong tools and real sub-systems which set them apart and can eventually let them do their own gameplan even in rough rough MUs…

However, one thing I like with SF is the fact in many ways it rewards you for picking a “stable” of characters to work with. Obviously you don’t have to, and most top players rarely switch off, but I think there is a really interesting element to using more than one character to cover MUs, playstyles, or to through off your oppenent when you don’t think X is working right. Why I like watch Chris G and liked Infiltration in SF4

IDK might come from playing DOA for so many years…

[Shahenzan]

IDK might come from playing DOA for so many years…

what happens in DOA that makes it a better idea to have several characters than be a specialist

[Naeras]

Slayer is arguably the worst character in Xrd, and he won Anime Ascension yesterday.

You can balance a game by making every character be able to do strong unique stuff.

You don’t have to be flashy to be unique or strong. Everyone in SFV has a specialty and you can’t look at any two matchups the same way.

Most SFV-characters play in a fairly similar way (or rather, they did in S1, I’d reckon they still do unless they changed up most of the characters completely), while most characters in Xrd play completely differently. It’s just not comparable.

Also who says anything about flashy? I play the most vanilla-ass character in Xrd (Ky) and he’s very strong even if he’s pretty effin’ basic.

[Veserius]

I mean players like Dogura and Machaboo switch characters.

Slayer is arguably the worst character in Xrd, and he won Anime Ascension yesterday.

You can balance a game by making every character be able to do strong unique stuff.

You don’t have to be flashy to be unique or strong. Everyone in SFV has a specialty and you can’t look at any two matchups the same way.

What is Vega’s specialty?

[Nobus3r1]

I mean FANG is also the worst character in SFV and Xian won tournaments with him…

well yeah the game is relatively balanced aside from a few matchups. the problem is that capcom achieved that balance by stripping out fun+powerful things and making most characters play very similarly

Agree wholeheartedly on your second statement. First statement I’m not so sure. I want to see more high level Guile before I sign off on ‘relatively balanced’ as I suspect that he shits on a few characters way worse than seems apparent at the moment (mostly due to a lack of data).

Like who?

There are so few Guiles in the wild that I haven’t seen enough Guile vs. grapplers (Zangief, Mika, Alex, Laura) to really say how those matchups have changed from S1. Haven’t seen enough Guile vs. Ryu to assess how much worse that matchup is now. Haven’t seen enough Guile vs. Nash to see how much Nash’s nerfs impacted that matchup. Just generally haven’t seen enough of the character. On paper he should be a lot better than in S1 but there just aren’t enough people using him to see how that plays out in practice.

[Volt]

Slayer is arguably the worst character in Xrd, and he won Anime Ascension yesterday.

You can balance a game by making every character be able to do strong unique stuff.

You don’t have to be flashy to be unique or strong. Everyone in SFV has a specialty and you can’t look at any two matchups the same way.

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder123/250x250/72929123.jpg

I’d elaborate on that, but Naeras covered everything.

I mean FANG is also the worst character in SFV and Xian won tournaments with him…

well yeah the game is relatively balanced aside from a few matchups. the problem is that capcom achieved that balance by stripping out fun+powerful things and making most characters play very similarly

Agree wholeheartedly on your second statement. First statement I’m not so sure. I want to see more high level Guile before I sign off on ‘relatively balanced’ as I suspect that he shits on a few characters way worse than seems apparent at the moment (mostly due to a lack of data).

Like who?

There are so few Guiles in the wild that I haven’t seen enough Guile vs. grapplers (Zangief, Mika, Alex, Laura) to really say how those matchups have changed from S1. Haven’t seen enough Guile vs. Ryu to assess how much worse that matchup is now. Haven’t seen enough Guile vs. Nash to see how much Nash’s nerfs impacted that matchup. Just generally haven’t seen enough of the character. On paper he should be a lot better than in S1 but there just aren’t enough people using him to see how that plays out in practice.

Guile does seem very strong, but I think the top tier as a whole is a bit underrepresented in Season 2. Can’t figure out why besides this being a pre-CPT season.

[Plaid_Unicorn]

I mean FANG is also the worst character in SFV and Xian won tournaments with him…

well yeah the game is relatively balanced aside from a few matchups. the problem is that capcom achieved that balance by stripping out fun+powerful things and making most characters play very similarly

Agree wholeheartedly on your second statement. First statement I’m not so sure. I want to see more high level Guile before I sign off on ‘relatively balanced’ as I suspect that he shits on a few characters way worse than seems apparent at the moment (mostly due to a lack of data).

Like who?

There are so few Guiles in the wild that I haven’t seen enough Guile vs. grapplers (Zangief, Mika, Alex, Laura) to really say how those matchups have changed from S1. Haven’t seen enough Guile vs. Ryu to assess how much worse that matchup is now. Haven’t seen enough Guile vs. Nash to see how much Nash’s nerfs impacted that matchup. Just generally haven’t seen enough of the character. On paper he should be a lot better than in S1 but there just aren’t enough people using him to see how that plays out in practice.

I think this could literally be said about every single character in S2. I know its not what people want to hear because there are some obvious faults in characters (that hopefully will get addressed in S2.5) but lack of data is what all characters have.