the duck + fierce is really a command grab? then it’s amazing even if the enemy can crouch to evade it.
i expect steve to use a lot of raw launcher, since your enemy will probably want to go for low most of the times.
I dunno, I don’t really get a Dudley vibe from him.
Basically all of Dudley’s pokes have similar/identical ranges to his :f::lp:. His effective mixup had basically no range, and for most of the versions of SF4 the only thing he could do about low pokes was focus or try to sweep them with a normal that had 10f startup or worse. The biggest problem was that everything he did put his vulnerable hitbox into a position where it could be hit by crouch forward from anyone, so Dudley had to whiff punish hard or die.
Hellfire alone looks better than anything Dudley had against grapplers. The range is really quite long and it doesn’t whiff crouchers, so you can probably use it against low attacks as well. Just the fact he has an attack that doesn’t put his hurtbox at risk makes him a completely different character. Same probably goes for flicker stance to an extent.
The range on his overhead should also be very significant. Dudley’s overhead is a combo starter with the shortest range known to man. Steve’s overhead is actually a poke that works at sweep range, but he doesn’t usually get a combo. And he can do a low out of his command dash, so the effective range on his low is several times larger than Dudley’s.
They both seem like they get a lot of damage out of the corner, and have poor defense against pressure. But that’s about where the similarities end. Dudley’s anti-air is actually very good, and he probably does a little better than Steve at point-blank. Steve seems to have a much better mid-range game in exchange for being even worse under pressure than Dudley and seemingly weak anti-air (which is where the Vega comparison comes from.) I haven’t seen any reversal-style moves from Steve yet, although that probably matters a bit less in this game with tech rolls.
no i think he’ll be better than dudley was in ssf4 ,how ever it looks like they have almost the exact same playstyle
ducking , counters ,that overhead that walk speed
i do think though his bad matchups will be the same as duds though
Don’t know enough to guess how actually good he’ll be, but as I said, I’d guess his bad matchups would be closer to Vega’s (obviously not the same.) Disjointed pokes and strong when in control, but no solid anti-air and crumbles if you manage to touch him.
Dudley’s moves are superficially similar but a character changes a lot when you give them range/a projectile. If Ryu’s fireball didn’t exist, he would have one of the worst sets of normals in the game.
Do we know what Steve’s alpha counter is? I guess sonic fang is the only one that would look right, unless he gets something from a stance.
His Alpha counter looks a bit like Urien from 3S’ tackle. It uses the same animation as the shoulder bump that is shown off in the video that follows the weave right (Medium Kick) bob.
i defo dont agree with that about ryu but i look at the fireball like a normal due to its short ragne
we shall see though you are right , i’m just saying what he looks like to me
his standing low is sneaky as fuck though
Some very cool Steve combos at the end of this video:
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I had no idea EX Flicker Stance was even possible. Very interesting…
just saw it, gave me some hope for this character. I really want him to be good >_<
He looks like he’ll get owned under pressure, though. The video I saw by Gamesradar didn’t really give me confidence in his AA options. It seems like he’ll be an all-out rushdown character.
Steve does suffer under pressure, but as you’ll find out after playing the game, an awful lot of characters in the game do. In fact you’ll probably notice that once any of the Tekken characters get in, they stay in for a long time and can keep you under sustained pressure. When they are in, the game does honestly feel Tekken-esque in that it’s about reading the opponent’s mixup and knowing when they are unsafe so you can start some offence of your own.
With anti-airs, I honestly think Steve’s anti-airs are good… for this game. If you watch any stream or any footage of the game in action, count to yourself the amount of times a player goes for an anti-air and either has their anti-air attempt trade or flat out beaten. You see this in all of the Games Radar character guide videos, and although the person playing in the video might not be a top level tournament player, you’ll actually find that anti-airs in this game in general suck, even Dragon Punches and Tiger Uppercuts. Only the EX versions of anti-air special moves (or super arts / cross assault) seem to be guaranteed anti-airs. When you play the game for yourself, you will know exactly what I mean.
I guess this is why everyone has the ability to interrupt a block string by tapping towards + HP + HK when in block stun. If you are under intense pressure (and it will happen even to the best players), you can do this to reset the situation and give you some time to breathe. It’s not the be all and end all solution (and it costs meter), but you do need to do it sometimes.
I think Steve will end up being a mid or high-mid character. Although he does not have a get-off me move, his normals are good (for this game anyway) and is fairly mobile. His Super Art is also really, really good and will make the opponent think. In order for him to become high tier, I think some serious technology will have to be discovered, but thus far I think he’ll be competitive in the right hands.
Most importantly of all, I find him a very fun character to use. His ducks / bobs / weaves and stance transitions make for a unique character design, and I think you’ll be able to get quite creative with him.
So after watching that walkthrough, does anyone know the difference between LK and MK bobs? As in, whats the purpose of LK if theres no follow-up and you can just use MK?
thats something were gonnahave to dissect in the lab
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What does Steve do for effective anti-air then? The opinion I’ve gathered from watching footage is that anti-air with normals is still really good (especially with counter-hit combos) and might already be preferable anyway against the characters with good crossups. So I haven’t seen evidence that all anti-air is bad just because SRKs trade more, just that we’ve been mostly seeing a combination of shotos and people who don’t know their Tekken characters’ anti-air moves.
But aside from stance moves the only move I’ve seen for Steve that looks like it hits upwards is crouch fierce, and it looked somewhat slow/not versatile compared to for example Rolento’s standing strong or Poison’s crouch fierce/SRK or everything Juri has. I haven’t played Steve, so I’m curious what makes his work.
his fireball looks like good anti air
Actually, most of the moves you have mentioned can be beaten.You need to be very precise in your timing and positioning when using an anti-air in this game, and there aren’t many (if any) moves that seem to an all-purpose guaranteed anti-air other than EX moves / Supers / Cross Arts. Even Dhalsim’s anti-air knee, the defacto anti normal of choice in SF IV, I have seen beaten by certain jump-ins. What this means, in a nutshell, is that jumping in this game is really, really good. If you think you’re going to be able to just stand there and anti-air everything that comes your way, good luck, because that strategy doesn’t work. Even characters like Sagat, Ryu and Dhalsim who you would normally associate with having a good anti-air game have some degree of trouble. You will be able to anti-air most of the time, but sometimes you just have to block. The risk of being beaten cleanly / trading in the opponent’s favour is too risky. I supect the game has been designed this way to help the Tekken characters, as it helps them get in and start their offence. It’s probably also why the Tekken characters seem to have really good jump-ins and some of the most ridiculous cross-ups you have ever seen in any fighting game, period.
For anti-air, Steve can use crouch Fierce, close MP (which goes straight upwards), Sway (his counter), Super, Cross Art, Neutral Jump / Jump Towards HP, Jump Back RH. You can also use ducking, or his quick spin to get the hell out of the way. It might not anti-air the opponent, but it resets the situation. If you’re near the corner it also gets you back to mid screen and puts the opponent in the corner, so it’s sometimes a genuinely good option.
Also as you might have noticed from many gameplay vidoes, sometimes the best anti-air is actually an air-to-air move. If you tag the opponent, you usually get a counter hit, allowing you to continue the juggle with any move on landing. Even if you do not get the counter hit, crouch LK and crouch MK will connect if timed correctly as the opponent drops. So this means that a succesful air-to-air not only stops a jump-in, it also allows you to tag a lot of damage on through a combo. Of course there is no guarantee that your anti-air will work and you could end up being juggled yourself, so it can be a risk.
I had wondered whether his sway moves would be quick enough to be effective as an anti-air, since they’re not cutscenes. Also haven’t seen his close normals so that’s good.
Yeah, it’s mostly observation in my case so I’ll see how it is when I play it more. For what it’s worth, the reason I had that opinion is that when I’ve seen someone use an anti-air normal at a time when it should work, it works. There are a lot of cases where people get beaten by throwing out an anti-air normal late though, probably due to jumps being different. And I’d still include jumping normals in the anti-air category, I’m already used to doing that with Juri.
Personally even in SF4 I would rather jump in on the characters you listed than a good Juri, Cammy, Cody, someone like that. SRK is easy to use and reliable in most situations, but it can be “fooled” so to speak if you are a character with a good jump-in. In comparison, the second group has a wide range of anti-airs, and it’s more difficult to learn them but in my experience also more difficult to get around them when you’re up against a good player.
It does look like there are more characters with good jump-ins, in exchange for weakening dive kicks. I’m guessing they felt it was warranted because of charge-canceled fireballs, alpha counters, and counterhit juggles giving the grounded person more options.
Does anyone know if his light punch flicker hits low.
It hits low and causes ground bounce if the opponent is already in a juggle state. It’s also possible to connect two Light Flickers in the corner, although the timing is tricky and it’s not your most damaging option. Looks cool though!
The Sways are kind of weird. Sometimes you avoid the hit, but the counter part of the move whiffs, meaning you can be punished. It also doesn’t stay out for very long, so sometimes the timing is strict. However if one connects it gives counter hit, so you can combo crouch short / jab from it. I think as the game evolves, if the move is used, it might be used as a footsie / anti-poke tool as opposed to anti-air.
Another anti-air choice, if you have the balls to do it, is to Either use Weaving A (Stand LK) or Weaving B (Stand MK). Weaving A is faster but Weaving B has the ability to launch with the two hit follow-up. So if you have your swag on, it’s possible to weave an anti-air, then launch and then hit a big punishment combo.
Wait til the LevelUpYourGame guys do a tutorial. They easily do the best tutorial for the Tekken chars.