Was wrong about that one too. I EX swayed a crouching attack during the heat of the match and I thought it countered low. Went into training mode and saw it counters the same moves as the normal ones. It is possible to switch cancel sway and have your partner combo of it, although with EX it is much easier since the window on the normal one seems kinda small. However there several 1 to 3 frame supers in the game, so having a partner with one could lead to a load of damage off of one good guess.
Edit: looked at the frame data spreadsheet and realized some crouching attacks don’t even hit low and some standing attacks hit low. Sway is only good against High or Mid attacks. I guess against matchups with slow lows, sway will dominate.
Steve is such a hard character to use, especially in the early stages of SFxT. I love his damage output and combos, but he does not have many answers unlike most Tekken characters. I feel like he has to be played as a character who will limit your opponent’s options even as they try to rush Steve down. It would be a lot easier when you think about it, but I would like to see how the game feels first before I can play Steve again.
And is it true that peekaboo cancel is as fast as flicker cancel? Didn’t try that yet as I only did the flicker one.
peekaboo’s frames are faster in general, but most of the combos SEEM a little easier for me doing peekaboo instead of flicker, could be because i like forward more than back LOL
da**** gimpyfish every dang game you play you use my characters. brawl, ssf4, and now this. F outta here lmao. Also I find using peekaboo stance as a good anti air
Did some testing and it seems like it is at least better than -1 if cancelled as early as possible. Julia’s 1 frame super with reversal timing is unable to punish :0
Edit: also did this midmatch, any attack that trades with his regular swaying attack grant steve the ability to combo after it without switch cancelling. #SwayingSwag
So I’ve been playing Steve and did a few sessions with my friends and I have a question to pose:
What can he actually do to someone who holds down/back? He has one mediocre overhead that gets him nothing except on counterhit, but at 17 frames, you can’t really create a good counterhit setup for it. My point is, he can keep pressuring, but they can just keep blocking. He doesn’t have an actual mixup. He can’t cross up, he can’t scare opponents into hitting buttons, and he can’t make them afraid to crouch.
This seems like a huge weakness. Anyone else notice this or have any ways to deal with it? He’s great fun if he can hit you and has meter but his offense seems to be pretty easy to neutralize.
if the person you are playing REALLY is just down backing and pressing no buttons (especially in the corner) that’s when you can start doing c.MP into hellfire or working on things with a little chip
also work in some grabs, even if the grab gets teched every single time - it makes your opponent at very least think that it’s POSSIBLE you’ll go for a grab, that’s one extra way you can work in the counterhit…
but yes, this is the first thing i noticed with the character. Down back > steve. To a certain degree this will be true.
Through a lot more experiment I’ve found that Weaving A is shockingly good for “anti-air” (i guess you can call it that) - keep in mind that actually pressing buttons in the air DOES add an extra 4 frames that you are grounded and in lag, if nothing else it can help you START the pressure or at least reset the situation, because the dude has awful anti-airs and tends to just get pressured hard…
my steve has improved a lot lately, i’m excited to get some videos up at some point.
I don’t get how is Weaving a good anti-air move. I tried it in training mode against everyone’s favourite Rolento and I just get smacked in the face by his stick or his roundhouse:(
Weaving doesn’t dodge anything at all if he does a deep jumpin move.
Ok that lp move in Peekaboo has 18 frames of start up and Peekaboo has 10 frames of start up. So you are telling me someone is going to wait there for half a second and get hit by this?! Use it against jumper?! Bear in mind most jumps is around 35 frames so you have 7 frames to do this high risk, low reward move, and its -20 on block, why would anyone risk life using this shitty move is beyond me.
Face it this move suck is ass. Steve’s only real anti-air options are cr.hp if they jump from far away, s.mp at mid-close range and jump back m.p or h.k on reactions. This guy is semi-decent at pressure, but he has no good jumpins or lows, and he is ass if someone tries to fight back against him.
True. It’s not a lot, but it will hit crouchers blocking and is essentially unpunishable, being -3 and pushing them so far back. Hellfire may actually be a key to a lot of his problems. I’ll get to that in a minute.
This:
This is a big part of the problem I feel. Steve’s weaving and quick spin aren’t invul to all high and mids, they are literally upper body invul. So not only will every low blow them up, but any deep jump in as well, since the move is active at Steve’s lower body. If your opponent hits a button very early during their decent, you could blow it up by weaving, otherwise your the one getting blown up. Still, it’s not useless. It’s just situational, and a good player will start hitting their button later in the jump, or just empty jump and throw you out of the weave.
The thing is, Steve has all this really cool shit that would blow people up if they fought him standing up. His counter move, swaying/quick spin, and that command grab off of ducking, which you can switch cancel and get a free super off of from your partner. So how do you make them stand up? I think I have an idea.
Steve has a ton of moves that lead to free combos and big damage on a crouched counterhit (CCH)opponent:
cl.MP - +30 on CHH
df.MP (overhead) - ground bounce on CHH
Spin Gut Punch (MP or HP from Quick Spin) - wall bounce on CHH
Ducking Body (f.MP) - +25 on CHH
This all brings me back to Hellfire. While it’s range is short for a projectile, it’s still Steve’s farthest hitting move that doesn’t commit him. It comes out and recovers fast enough to use pretty safely at and near max range. It can also be super charged and super charge cancelled (SCC). What if instead of just going in with Steve, you stood at 3/4 screen or so and zoned with Hellfire, and once they started blocking, you SCC it to store a counter hit?
Suddenly, you have some really good options, the most important of which is his overhead, which has really good range. Now, if you approach that crouching opponent and he doesn’t stand up, he gets ground bounced and combo’d for about 322 damage. That’s a pretty good reason to stand up and block.
Next time, the mixup becomes between that and Gatling Gun, the command grab out of ducking. Next time, after he gets caught with that, he tries to stuff a ducking he thinks is coming with a standing button, which you can blow up with spinning gut punch, scoring the standing counterhit which earns you a crumple and a maximum damage of 515 for one bar.
Maybe once you store the counterhit, they panic and try to zone you with a projectile. You can duck right through it and ducking doesn’t expend your counterhit so you can land a Fox Hunt and go into a combo for around 500 damage if you have a meter. With no meter you can just do skyscraper and a follow up combo for a bit over 300.
So my point is, Hellfire is a good 3/4 to midscreen tool that maybe isn’t getting used enough. It builds meter, does chip damage, spaces opponents out and SCCing it to store a counterhit can make opponents afraid of his overhead, leading to a whole post SCC mid range mind game that Steve can exploit for unbelievable damage.
In general, I think storing a counterhit whenever possible (ie: after hard knockdowns) makes Steve a whole different character.