the thing is with charge inputs, moves are inherently better to make up for charge.
if you make moves worse to make them motion then the identity changes. There are also things like walk speed and normals to account for where charge characters usually get a premium on those as well. Hell Vega usually gets premium jump speed too.
of course vega can be a good character with charge moves, but does anyone even bother using wall dives in USF4? When you can just poke or do combos. When I saw the trailer, his wall dive still looks like SF4 wall dive, still kind of delayed compared to ST wall dive.
People are only going to complain about vega being a non charge character are mostly shoto fanboys, or other fanboys who dont want to deal with him.
You’ve been on this site for 13 years so I assume you’re a seasoned veteran of Vega/SF in general so I respect the viewpoint, but it just seems like you have an unwillingness to adapt to a change in the character. Birdie and Charlie have seen the change hammer dropped down onto them and I haven’t seen anybody making large disagreements about their changes with things like “It isn’t Charlie/Birdie any more, they’ve lost their integrity!” he’ll still have everything the character is known for, but things are going to be adjusted and not straight up copies of the previous games moves and the character as a whole will get a breath of life into him.
He still looks like Vega, has the moveset of Vega(Impending adjustments on those moves probably) and if anything will be able to play more like the Spanish ninja he really is and be mobile a lot more effectively. The only argument behind wanting to retain a character as charge to me personally is “I like charge characters”.
Which is fine of course, but I don’t think it affects the character’s ability to be competitive at all they’ll just receive changes to their moveset to accommodate the motion commands, but the specials themselves will serve the same purpose. Is there really such a large issue with this? Character’s getting a new coat of paint is a nice change of pace to an ever ageing cast.
never a good assumption to make
we have people who’ve been here 13 years and are barely literate!
I can’t see a reason to complain about character’s moves being changed from motion to charge other than nostalgia. How do we know vega still has his identity? Well because he’s…vega? He plays different in ST that he does in CVS than he does in EX than he does in IV. Capcom wants V to be progressive. I don’t see how changing character moves and their motions is a dilemma. They are meant to play different. Hell, look at bison. He’s almost a different archetype in this game…
I don’t think Capcom is going too far, but this may just be because the very existence of charge characters offends my sensibilities. The control scheme is just so much… uglier. I can’t really explain it. It’s not that the moves are difficult to pull off. There’s just something about doing them with charges that grosses me out.
Right, and in ST he’s all about pokes and FBA, but in SF4, pokes and RCF, or at least that’s what they intended. Alpha 3 he’s completely different from ST, FBA is so weak, you’d think ST Vega players would have been mad as fuck about it, but people still played him. His poke game is also completely different and you rely on an entirely different set of buttons. In CvS2 he’s a completely different monster, doesn’t really even need specials.
Anyway, this is a bit off topic, this thread is about changing charge to motion.
You’re right, my bad. I could have swore he was able to insta-TAP, but it does look like it needs a short charge like his other moves.
Im pretty sure you arent going to be able to spam his moves in SFV without being punished. And his gameplay should be more about pokes and combos.
If Rog could insta-TAP we’d ALL be in trouble.
Jubei from Fatal Fury is a charge grappler. Chrome Dome from TMNT:TF has Electric Piledriver which can be executed with either down up charge or down up tap. I was not expecting Vega’s new moves to be charge, that’s not what I’m fighting for.
The answer to that question may lead to the extinction of charge if Capcom presses it. “Options opened up”, that’s a real can of worms. Obviously changing a charge move to circular would open up options. Balrog would have options opened up if his dash punches and headbutt where made into circulars(non-EX Dash Punches haven’t been all that for a while and non-EX Headbutt will probably never have full body invincibility again). Being able to do a move whenever you want is an option opener-upper. So why not open up every charge character’s options? The list of charge specials that need to be charge is small indeed. Balrog, Blanka and Honda could get some specials changed. Dee Jay could be made circular completely. People were mad at Nash and Birdie being changed. I didn’t think much of it. Bison made it and he stayed charge. Vega losing his charge made it a “thing” for me. If he can lose it then anybody can.
Oh yeah, only the first two sentences in the Change/Nostalgia part of my previous post was directed at you. I wasn’t saying you were trying to shut me up, but various others.
And that would still be the case with charge. The FBA combos shown in the trailer are possible with charge. You could build charge on the way down.
I think a shoto would not play like itself if its movelist was changed to charge/360/mash.
Let’s look at it another way. How do you think people would react if Ryu was changed to a charge character? Would a charge-based Ryu feel like Ryu still?
Or you can deal with it like Chun players who have to adapt to changing motions in almost every installment. Or worse, they keep the motions, but make her play nothing like her previous ones.
I’ll deal with it one way or an other when the change is final. Until then, saying “deal with it” is insubstantial.
Chun Li being different so often is to be expected by now and really isn’t a fair comparison.
Yup. Honestly the biggest problem with Vega has been how shitty one of his specials is. It isn’t an issue of whether or not they make it a command, it has always been an issue of it consistently being shitty. Making it a motion won’t fix the fundamental issue of walldive being bad.
As shitty as one button inputs were, they were pretty neat so you could see what charge characters were like with command moves. Guile was HILARIOUS because he could walk forward and boom. If Vega is gonna walk forward and poke xx rolling cristal flash, you might as well have just given him rekkas.
wall dives in sf4 are weak. They are very unsafe, and izuna’s hitbox is tiny. Now in say Vega vs. Sagat if Sagat gets knocked down near the corner, he’s getting Izuna looped.
This second sentence is hilarious. The point is another about a character losing their identity. When you start at attempting to argue from a false premise you just look silly. I am not a fanboy in any way, and I don’t agree with him being non charge completely, though I hope he ends up with a charge and a non-charge stance in the long run.
changing a character from charge to input or vice versa, changes their playstyle. you’re charging while doing pokes or defending and that charged move costs time and space control and makes up for it with good frame startup and damage for example. so Ryu walk up fireball has a long start up but imagine Blanka walk up ball or Guile’s insane startup on his sonic boom while moving forward. it changes everything so they’d have to rearrange all the frame data and damage to balance it out. they’d feel like everyone else and you’re losing an experience because of that. it doesn’t necessarily always open up a characters possibilities, it can also take them away.
He dosnt need to be a charge character though if hes just going to combo and poke. What benefit does he get when most of the time you are just going to poke and combo.
Thats the thing though, the fighting game community has double standards about who should be good and not, its all fan base. Look at how many people wanted Adon to be nerfed and some other characters. People never complain about evil ryu or akuma, or yun still being top tier. And of course people were booing at evo when that guys rolento was owning people, soon as Juri was making a come back, everyone was clapping. I bet you anything if Blanka is in SFV and wasnt a charge character with 2 new moves everyone would cry and complain like little bitches.
Chun Li pretty much works like she did in 3S where the only 2 charge based moves she has (kikoken and sbk) aren’t very powerful in the neutral so it’s not like I personally feel it any ways. Chun Li only has 3 special moves now that senen shuu is a command normal and the only other thing that could count as a special now is her V Skill which has a lot of utility in theory any way. So far I’ve just been playing SFV Chun like 3S Chun and just walking in and out hitting buttons and doing hit confirms. Waiting for full CA meter then just landing c.MK hit confirm to super off counter hits. It may be possible to hit confirm off standard hit like in 3S, but the timing seems real tight.
Chun Li is kind of like Vega where she’s always been about pokes. I use to play Chun in ST with nothing but throws and normals. Doesn’t make much of a difference whether kikouken is HCF or charge because you’re still gonna be clapping dudes with regular button presses.
On the other hand, how fast she builds meter and how easily she can get damage from it seems a pretty big deal for her as a character.