i don’t get this fear capcom and others have about charge characters. traditionally, charge characters have strong specials and good normals for anti-airs. this changed in SF4 for whatever reasons the creators had, and normals across the board aren’t very good for anti-air save a few. if your only way of AA is a charged special then you’re screwed. now since SF5 is by the same people, this mentality is probably (just taking a guess) still in effect and they’re trying to homogenize the way all characters react to every situation.
the first time i played SF2 in arcades i was 8, and my very first character was Blanka. some dude next to me told me to hold back for 2 seconds and then forward and a punch button. i was pulling it off and felt like a badass. it wasn’t hard at all.
13 years here and how much time have you spent on the Vega forum?
Now I need to eat my own fucking words. Looks like it has happened! Also @Korbidon lol, I just saw this.
Seems like your opinion has changed over the course of nearly 2 years?
So there, @Daemos a long time Vega main who loves the character was, at one point nearly 2 years ago, seriously defending the idea of Vega changing to a charge motion character.
The fact that you said it at some random point in time in some random thread doesn’t mean I wasn’t being honest or even invalidates what I said. The majority of Vega players through out the character’s history have never really made a big deal about him being a charge character. Sure someone somewhere might’ve brought up the topic for discussion’s sake but it still a relatively fringe opinion among Vega mains. But it seems from your behavior towards me in the past day or two that this kind of childish pseudo-‘I Told You So’ post is to be expected. I’ll be ignoring you henceforth.
Some random thread?? The thread it happened in was a fairly significant thread in the Vega forum, since it revolved around the USF location tests and have over 30 pages of posts. Yeah, random thread, dude :neutral:
You say you were being honest in your post, but the problem with your posts is that through your words you act as an authority on the subject because a) you’ve never, ever seen it and b) trust me because I’ve been here for 13 years so I must be right! Your post was dishonest.
I did, and I know I can’t be the only guy on the planet who has thought about Vega changing from charge to motion.
All I know is that if Balrog makes it into SF5 and is NOT a charge character, that is going to take one hell of an adjustment for me personally to get used to, if I can even do it at all lol.
But also imagine him being able to just walk forward and then do a quick light dash punch. That seems kinda OP to me. Same with a turn punch. If you can just do a turn punch whenever you want, it would make it a little too OP imo.
Or hell even his torpedo punch armor break move. Imagine if in SF4 you could do that no matter whether you had charge not. It would crush focus attacks.
(and yes I know focus attacks are gone in SF5, but just stating how it could change things drastically)
Balrog is one of the few charge characters in SF4 who is actually really, really good. Also, you can TAP anytime you please, no motion, no charge. Quick touch of the PPP or KKK button(s) gets you insta-TAP through fireball. Boxer would definitely be OP in SF4 if he wasn’t a charge character, at least in the current state he’s in. It would make it interesting though.
I brought up the turn punch because it’s still technically a charge move. You can’t do it “anytime you please”. You have to have the 3 buttons held down for at least like 60 frames or possibly more/less (for level 1), but you don’t simply just press 3K or 3P and TAP.
Okay, in reply to OP I’ll throw in my own two cents with no nostalgia glasses on considering my first serious fighter was SF4.
Out of every charge character I’ve seen the ones that I always thought desperately needed to have some form of motion attack were the characters who had to move back and forth a bunch, Bison can skip this because of Scissors and Balrog can because of Rush Punch. Vega? His charge moves don’t give him that, if he had motion moves in something like SF4 he’d be playable because he’d actually be able to poke characters(His only defining strength) and have the ability to anti-air on top of that. The only move of his that I think warrants a charge is the FBA. ST and RCF serve no utility as charge moves as(In SF4s case) they were mainly used as reactionary tools meaning Vega would have to sit still or walk back and lose space which is invaluable to him.
SF5 has a faster pace, and even though focus attacks are gone I wouldn’t like to see a character stuck near the lower end of the tiers because they can’t play their game effectively enough. That’s what Vega felt like to me at least, a strong character held back by his charge attacks, if he had a motion ST he would at least be competent in my eyes and people couldn’t jump for absolutely free.
Guile - Understandable why he is a charge.
Bison - Understandable why he is a charge.
Balrog - Understandable also.
Vega - Not entirely, felt like he was a hybrid. His moveset in SF4 didn’t warrant charging for at least a couple of attacks. ST though? The dude was pretty baller.
I’m cool with the changes honestly. These changes open up possibilities for him in competitive play.
Nostalgia seems to be the only reason why people want him to remain a charge character. I haven’t seen one solid argument yet as to why him remaining charge would benefit him in competitive play, which is all I really care about as a Vega mainer.
You’ve created a false dilemma by suggesting that being a charge character makes a character competitively handicapped and unviable when nothing could be further from the truth, and history has been witness to this. Your entire argument against Charge Vega is built on this fallacious premise actually - that charge = bad, motion = good. Vega could be a much better and robust character and still be a charge character like he always has been. The switch to motion suggests incorrectly that the charge inputs were the thing holding him back from his full potential (we know this is not true because Vega has topped tier lists as a charge character) when a number of factors are playing a role. Addressing these factors should’ve been prioritized and considered many times over before even thinking about changing the mechanical way a character is played. Vega isn’t even a hybrid, he’s full motion. That’s a dramatic shift in play style any way you cut it and would alarm the players of ANY character. So don’t try to dismiss the opposing point of view as nostalgia or even hysteria because it really isn’t.
Also you and others keep suggesting that nostalgia is holding us down when our point of view is as nostalgic as an shoto player wanting Akuma or Ryu to remain motion character. We all want our characters to be the best that they can be, so long as they still play and feel relatively like our characters - otherwise what’s the point if they just look like them.
For everyone’s consideration I want to point this out. Charge vs motion is little more than a “can this character perform x move at y time?”
Vega has a command grab now. I want you to imagine how awkward a charged command grab would be. And before saying “that move doesn’t have to be charged!” Give that line some thought as well… also if you did charge input a command grab what would it even be? Forward then away? This would make the most sense but ultimately deny Vega the ability to see an opportunity and react immediately. Now imagine the same roll and other moves throughout his list both as we have it and as we may get it as both variants. Particularly possible combo routes it opens up or closes. The consideration is your own to make from this point but it makes sense to give a character that revolves around precision access to all or most of his tools without delay.
I like how these new options open up playing styles for him that he didn’t have before and I think coupled with his new motion gameplay will make him really interesting in the long run.
If there was one character they could change from charge to motion of the original series it would definitely be Vega. He can very much play like he used to and more without the charge. I really like the direction SFV is going with this stuff. They’re giving us a lot of the older SF2 and Alpha cast to start, but unlike SFIV they are giving everyone something fresh and going over things that people may not have initially thought about before. There’s a lot more progression here than in IV and feels a lot more worth of a new number to the series than IV ever did.
I don’t have to imagine anything. Vega can have a motion command grab and still retain a predominantly charge special set, especially for returning or similar to returning specials. You too are creating a false dilemma with your post right there.
A special with a charge input must be designed with the charge input in mind. Not every move should or can have a charge input just like not every move should or can have a motion input. Many things must be taken into account to balance the move, much like how many things must be taken into account when designing a charge or a motion character.
Is it possible to have a charge command grab? I’m sure it is (and there have been characters in fighting games with moves like this), but probably not Vega’s ground izuna drop which appears to have never been intended to be a charge special.
Honda has been a charge character with a motion grab for a very long time now, so there’s that.
Aside from that I can actually see a charge command grab character being scary as hell if you gave him the right tool set, and like Daemos said I’m pretty sure it has been done a few times already.
But that isn’t the character. Add to him and take away all you want, but keep the integrity of the character. Vega with command moves isn’t really Vega anymore. Besides the problem with Vega has always been that Hyubal is dumb shit and they haven’t found a good middle ground for it.
yeah the command is down > up + P, and if you mess up and it even has an air variation.
she has a command dash that is a 123 input so you can use it after that, or like after a safe jumpin situation to force them to guess.
the sequence here she does a normal grab, then an ex(which requires no charge), then a divekick tick into the charge grab, around 15:00 you can see the command grab > command dash > command grab sequencing. the third rep goes for the divekick to catch defensive options.
but yeah i’m good at charge execution and mash move inputs so I’m going to lose my executional advantage in sf5, i’m poor at other types of execution, other than tking.
I guess you mean ST Vega? Wall dives haven’t been that great after ST. He pretty much didnt have to use them in CVS2 and I generally don’t see it much in IV anymore. As far as the repeated setups go any way.
I don’t personally see how Vega isn’t Vega anymore without charge. I just see it as Vega with motions
IMO, just because you change a characters inputs doesn’t mean they stop playing like themselves. In the same way that you can retain their inputs and make them play quite differently from their past incarnations.
