Thats just an execution issue. It happens to a lot of people but I am pretty sure its due to lazzyness. When I have my mind set on getting the move out, it will come out.
That said I hate shortcuts and think they should be taken out.
too lazy to quote but:
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Don’t care if they tweak HK. There, I said it. I use sMK far more than sHK anyways. As good as it the legend is, it’s not as good as one would think (good AA though). As a poke, MK is far superior.
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HS is great if the opponent is full screen away and jumps, or if you’re in close and can guess right. Still too easy to just walk away from though, and it wiffs in weird ways, and the hitbox needs work. The ‘aftermath’ is hella annoying, as you can be punished pretty easily after a blocked HS, which in addition to how easily SD is avoided, makes for a hell of a need to be fixed.
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Taking out shortcuts means no more back teleport while keeping charge. I honestly hate this argument, as I could go either way. In one way I hate them, but in another, I love em. SOME of the shortcuts can go though.
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PC changes. I could go ANYWHERE with this. This move is so horribly broken, you could do any number of different things to it, to improve it.
a) You could make it go through people all the time, to allow for crazy crossover type mixups
b) you could increase the recovery, so it’s blanka ball style.
c) you could increase speed/range, so it can punish as an AA
d) you could fix the hitbox, for similar reasons.
Paint the fence better have great wakeup properties or I won’t care. Its sad to say, but this will likely be his new move, unless Capcom is prepared to bring the wow!!! to SSFIV. Having it connect to ultra is lame unless ex version launches (cuz you’re looking at a minimum 2 second move that allows you get enough back charge to ultra).
Devil, when doing ultra/special, hit Up+forward+K/KKK to avoid teleporting at the end of the command (but yeah, i do it all the time when i’m rushing or nervous or high or drunk or whatever)
anywho, i gots me 48 hours of Gold with my main account, so bring the pain boys and girls 
edit: btw, if anybody needs an air special, its bison. As it stands, ain’t much options for you if you’re jumping.
It needs to be less punishable and probably have a better hitbox (shouldnt be beat by c. anything). Not saying it should be safe but it could have at least 75% of its recovery shaved.
Or just make it and DR move way faster and still give it a better hithox.
With the damage Head Press does the risk to do it makes it balanced. You wont see the move punished that much when you are closer to the opponent, and if they can react to that then they deserve the damage they dish out on Bison. I think the idea was to keep people from abusing the move at full screen, and most Bison players have learned how to use Head Press better because of it. If you remember when the game first came out everyone and their Mom played Bison because all you had to do was DR, HP, and st.RH. Boy was that stupid, and I would not like to see that again.
If anything, maybe slightly less recovery on Head Press so the combo isn’t as damaging. But you should be punished for whiffing it for sure.
soviet:
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We both agree
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Post above in regards to that. The follow up does seem useless but I can’t think of a single change to make it any more useful that it is. It’s a stale mixup but you can either do SD, not do SD, land in front of them and cr.LKx3 into Knee Press, or land in front of them and throw (as they focus expecting a SD).
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A shoto to have a short cut is one of the things that makes the game dumb. I would rather not have it. It would negate my signature trick that people say is “psychic” or “godlike” but it’s well worth it so I don’t have to face palm when I play shotos.
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There are a bunch of options and I am sure that the devs are looking at it from every angle so it’s not too broke or too weak.
I don’t think Capcom will add any new moves so I wont expect Psycho Banish.
I don’t like the idea of an air special just because it isn’t Bisons character to have one. I want the new Ultra cut scene to he him Psycho Crushing the opponent to the wall and start painting fences.
Man I would have loved to face this mythical Bison army you’re talking about. I was too busy swimming in the Sea of Ken and the Ryu Ocean to see anything else. Maybe after you swim your way to the dead center of the sea, there would be a an isle of full of Bisons smiling and waiting for you… that would have heavensigh :bgrin:
In other words, LIAR. YOU’RE A NO GOOD LIAR. There was never a point in time where Bison was the crowds pick, so to see “everyone and their mom” is stretching the the truth a bit.
That said, I don’t know where you play but the HS/DR stuff got old fast. It worked for maybe 2 weeks then everyone figured out “lol imma walk backwards nao” or “lol imma trade that hs with a shoryu and get my utlra out”
EDIT
I read somewhere a few post up that someone saying Bisons tele/ex-DR is a free escape move? First of tele is only good for warping backwards, and its very punishable. You’re screwed if you try it in the corner. EX-DR isn’t exactly free since you’re using meter for it. Same goes for PC.
Bison gets nothing free, come to think of it.
You all have to remember though, not EVERY move has to be useful all the time. They are unique and give the character depth because of the rarity which they are used.
Remember what I said about cr.FP? It’s a good tool to use rarely.
Some people think close st.FP has no use out of combos. An example for its use: Do a block string and instead of Knee Press dash forward, cr.LP(block), st.FP(hit), cr.LK, Knee Press. This is just one of the examples close st.FP can be used to hit option selects. When you are playing footsies up close try to use st.MP instead of st.MK.
Using Jab Psycho Crusher at the right distance is frame advantage (+6 according to the Japanese SF4 strategy book). Even FP Psycho Crusher in combos will reverse the situation when you were in the corner.
I never see any USA Bisons use these moves ever. So don’t disclame them just because it appears useless.
When the game first came out Bison was top three at a point. People saw the damage of his Ex HS, the safeness of Knee Press, and the bulkiness of st.RH. These made Bison great until people realized how to deal with it.
If you look at the bottom of Event hubs you will see that Bison was second in the first tier list and fifth on the second list. While that doesn’t prove that “everyone and their Mom” played Bison it certainly helps give an idea of how easy he was when people didn’t know how to deal with him.
As for teleport you do need a bit on incite or a good character to punish but it is still useful every once and a while. It’s one of those moves that my opponent needs to prove he/she can punish before I stop. Ex DR covers MOST options and is a very viable tool to escape (though sometimes it is better not to do the follow up).
This is a fighting game, I do not expect anything to be 100% guaranteed. And personally I would rather be forced to block. Blocking is a skill too and everyone should learn it well.
you dont seem to understand. Sure, a shoto can SRK a little easier with shortcuts. But Bison can backwards teleport and keep charge for ultra/super/Ex. You have no idea how valuable that is to him. Shortcuts are fine. People can bitch all they want, but at high level it wouldn’t matter, they’re probably hitting the command anyways. There are better things to change, such as reversal windows.
If PC is exactly the same I am giving up any sense of hope for Capcom.
wrong, they already said they were.
He has had Air Teleport and SK and PC in other games. Normally DR is his air special, but they decided to rape it this game.
anyhwho, dont reply 70 times in a thread, just edit your last post to save space. Scrolling is lame.
The problem isn’t that it can be dealt with but that it makes the game more defensive. Why should I risk baiting it when a the other character can focus cancel their invisible move? That would require you to give your advantage to the other player?
See what I’m saying? It’s not so much the shortcut itself that makes it annoying as it’s the fact that your giving up pressure when they have meter. That is why I would have preferred no character to be able to have an invincible move that can combo into an Ultra.
As far as viability, sure it is useful but I wouldn’t say it is THAT useful. I mean, it isn’t a big enough part of his game to make me want to keep it. Loosing st.MK or short Knee Press would be a bigger deal.
Psycho Crusher does suck. I think we keep agreeing on that.
I didn’t see anything about new moves so thats why I said “I think.”
What games? You don’t mean Marvel games do you?
I edited when I got home. As I said before my phone can only post so many texts at once.
Keeping back charge after backwards (key word backwords) teleport is valuable for Dictator in the context of Vanilla SFIV where nobody has shit for options any ways and something as dry as being able to hold charge as a teleport would be considered “a valuable option”. Something that is like Mamation said…basically turtling your ass off and hoping someone presses a button at you. That’s not Dictator…that’s SFIV watered down Dictator. It’s not something that promotes offense and keeps Dictator from being the powerhouse offensive character he was in the older games. There isn’t much reason to take risk or push any real offense with Dictator in regular SFIV because the mechanics and the way the character was designed disables him from doing anything as remotely interesting as he was able to do in his glory days.
In the good old days Dictator was a charge character but was still designed in a way and put into a game with mechanics that allowed him to basically be an offensive king. The only matchups Dictator needed to turtle in in the old days was against Gief. Though in SFIV game mechanics that strip you of the few things you have to begin with force him to be more of a laid back poking and spacing type against characters that can cancel their specials into Ultra for free and he can’t do anything close to as poweful at all…
i demand wall bounce into super psycho crusher…but seriously if super psycho is his second ultra i would like if its similar to blankas second ultra in that it does massive damage and chip but is unsafe so if you use make sure u use it well
bison’s recovery on teleport is so damn long you dont need to use the shortcut to maintain down charge. I’m like 90 percent sure on this when i was experimenting with both inputs.
anyways, after thinking about it a few weeks ago I concluded that there’s nothing wrong with shortcuts. What’s missing is the lack of safe blockstrings (bison has one that ends in scissors so thats good) and the reversal window. Shortcuts wouldn’t mean shit with these two things back in place except execution gets slightly easier for beginners which is perfectly fine and in my opinion a good thing, as long as it doesn’t give them some sort of inherent and lop-sided advantage both on paper and in practice. In vanilla’s case, it does, but taking away shortcuts isn’t really a good answer if the reversal window and lack of blockstun remains the same. Those are the real culprits and what makes shortcuts a problem in the game, not the other way around. Mashing wouldn’t be worth shit if meaties on wakeup and blockstun actually meant something instead of forcing you to go back on the defensive or playing possum and baiting. its just as DevilJin says, it’s an aspect of the game mechanics that just makes offense dry and boring and in dictator’s case, makes him a shadow of his former self. It’s almost even an advantage of the opponent if you begin to attack and they block because depending on the safety of your string it’s a guaranteed reversal and possibly an ultra for them! (unless they bait, in which case if you do nothing your offense is killed and you’re back to square one). that’s just absurd and it has little to really do with shortcuts.
I have to disagree, with shortcuts on you can input srk roughly 500 times a second. That would be impossible if they were gone.
Also, they make alot of more advanced techniques needlessly difficult, effectively negating their reason for being. Go back to tighter inputs and the game will get better, it’s that simple.
It seems that way but if you look at Bisons frame data you will see he actually has quite a bit of moves with frame advantage. When a character like Ryu doesn’t have meter there is quite a bit you can do. Since doing an uppercut is more dangerous in that situation (where blocking one gives you a full damage combo) the opponent is less likely to attempt a dragon punch. The problem is that about midway through the first match Ryu will likely have half a bar of meter. And at that time he will likely have an ultra. Because of the low damage Bison deals that gives the Ryu player a lot more opportunities to get his DP into Ultra.
It’s a shame too because there are a lot of fun things that Bison can do in block strings but they are negated by this one problem. And thats why something needs to change whether it is the shortcuts or comboing into Ultra. They don’t even have to get rid of the possibility. Simply making the Ultra itself prorate more would make the game less defensive.
You can f+PPP warp if you’re being jumped on at like a quarter screen away, just not up close crossups because it doesn’t bring you anywhere, that’s when b+KKK warp is a lot better. A lotta people dont use f+PPP but I 've been experimenting with a lot of situations lately.
Thanks for that stat DuckStrong and I see what you and MrMamation are saying. You WILL land that DP no matter how tiny the reversal window because of the 500 srks per second, so 8.3 per frame on average hahahha. whadda load of BS. Even if they did reduce the reversal window to ONE frame you have 8 shots to get that DP!!! Okay so 1/60th of a second reversal window or not it doesn’t change a thing. BS. Now, I still think moar blockstun is important! Adding one frame of blockstun to bison’s cr.lk would be plenty. 2 more frames and that shit would be gdlk even though it does pitiful damage when you do land it. It would be a great pressure string safe from reversals, mashed or not. Right now cr.lp, s.lp chain linked to cr.lk xx scissors is not much ‘pressure’ and thats the only real string that is safe for Bison on block aside from one hitters.
Mr.Mamation, the issue of the two bars and safe uppercut is more a balance, risk/reward issue and I really don’t think that’s going to change. There are ways around it I suppose, but against someone like Sagat whose fireball marathon is the worst to run only superseded by Guile, he has no reason to get in your face as soon as you get in and try it. God help you if he has four bars, at least we have teleport to get out of there. It sure sucks for people with shitty backdashes and no teleport. They just have to sit there and guess or die. It’s absurd the mixup you get off of a safe DP, but it’s not really an issue with Ryu imo. The guy is ‘balanced’ on his own enough to be overcome, especially by Bison, but Tiger Knee is essentially a better scissor kick (two hitter, moves forward, anti-airs, kara-able, does well against EX headbutt and many other special moves) that is a command move, leading to all kinds of safe pressure at the drop of the hat given the right spacing. I really don’t know what to think, I honestly don’t have problems with the Ryu, Akuma, Ken matchups or anyone else that has a sort of DP except Sagat. that matchup just bums me out, but it bums a lot of people out so I think it’s really an issue of nerfing the bastard which is not going to happen unless its in the damage department which would be a really minor nerf imo since all of his risk/reward stuff remains the same even if his uppercut does like 10 percent less damage or something.
Heres the part we just hope all of that fluff about everyone getting better isn’t just fluff. Part of me thinks they’re going to say “naaaahhh bison’s FINE. He has SIX specials already!!!” And that everyone gets a new move talk could just be clever PR hinting at the new ultras, that’s honestly what I think it is. If everyone is getting a new special normal or special then that would change the entire game. that’d be nice.
Well I know it wont change because Ono said he plans on giving everyone a way to combo into their Ultra. I really don’t even know if taking away shortcuts will change the game enough but every little bit helps.
Sometimes I will but the b+KKK works well with jump ins too. It all depends on where you are on the screen.
I think we can all agree that EX and normal Psycho Crusher needs to be changed in some way. We suggested a bunch of options and I am sure that the devs have thought of several ways to balance it. We also probably agree that he needs more damage. With these two things fixed and Bison having a new Ultra and being able to combo into one I feel he would be complete.
Oh yeah, although you are giving up your advatage you can B+PPP when their uppercuts are predictable. When they wiff uppercut you punish how you see fit. It works the first time, but against better players you will have to be more suddle with this manuver.
Also I will argue the Head Press argument forever because I truly want Bison to be a fun character, but also a character based of the persons skill. In other words I want Bison players to be forced to work on their footsies. And that goes with using bad moves at the best times.
Something to keep in mind, when I listed the mixups after DR I said they were stale. But I also said that its good to use when you cant think of anything else for a mixup, its one of those random things that throw people off. Maj had an article that convayed exactly what I was trying to say. Its posted on the srk front page so have a gander if anything I say makes no sence.
My point is that if they are jiggling the stick to get d,df,d,df,d,df ad nauseum, they get multiple dp inputs everytime they press a single punch button. That is, df,d,df counts as an input as well as d,df,d when you consider the large window to press punch after the motion input. So what you get is a constant barrage of dp inputs from every fucktard who wouldn’t even be able to do the fucking move in a game like ST. Having to hit forward would go a long way towards alleviating this because jiggling the stick could also net you a fireball(although I wouldn’t be surprised if dp motions always supercede fireballs) or at least cut down on the “500 dp’s a second” that I was obviously being facetious about earlier. This would also force you to stand to do a dp, leaving you vulnerable to low attacks. Wouldn’t this add a little depth to the game? Crouching dp’s used to be hard to do.
They probably won’t change the huge window to press the punch button, but I don’t think it’s too much to ask that the actual motion have to be more precise. And of course when you also factor in the large reversal window, easier inputs and the absurdly short block stun on close to everything (why the fuck can you get full jump in combo if you hit Sagat at the very peak of your jump, but to get a safe follow up to a blocked jump in, you need to hit him around the waist? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
) any moron can pick a hole in your block string unless it’s all jabs.
Anyway, we all know the mind game of “to mash or not to mash” really waters the game down and when you add FADC dp, well it just gets fucking stupid. This would probably be controversial, but I would make it so you can only FADC a move on hit or whiff (for fireballs). No get out of jail free bullshit, an invincible launcher that leads to 50% damage at the drop of a hat has no business being that fucking safe.
I’m hoping for Psycho Explosion, as it would look so cool in 3D, and I can almost picture it
jMPx2, Explosion, jMPx2 while still being exploded, then exPC
sexy
anywho, a lot of the DP situations with regards to shortcuts are more a problem of absolute guard though. Consider that when an opponent is in a blockstring, the moment they hit Forward to start a DP, they should NOT BE BLOCKING, and should eat whatever I hit them with. Shortcuts aren’t REALLY the problem. Being able to mash SRK while still maintaining your block, now that is the problem
Yeah I think my beef with b+KKK warp is that if it’s mid-screen to a third of the screen, even if it’s not at the edge of the stage, you don’t warp back much because the camera doesn’t shift back quick enough it just goes as far as it can move. I think they should give Bison a warp like Akuma.