I look at virtually any place I would use an overhead special , and it’s still USELESS in SFIV.
How many characters really crouch block when u’re that close to them? MAYBE rog, but his cLP would beat out PB anyways. Guile wouldn’t even let you get that close (and if you were that close, you have MUCH better things to be doing).
You’re essentially asking for a move that would make G2 a bit easier for you
EX-Knee Press crumble? 
f*** crumble
EX Headpress needs some more tracking period … >.>
Its an overhead…how can it hurt us?
Okay, in the sense of bison getting a free move (barring some sort of shortcut fuckup property like Seth gets with a lot of his moves, even though Akuma seems pretty good), it doesn’t really hurt. Obviously, ANY new move is welcome.
But I state that in SFIV (maybe previous games it worked), it has no use. You have MK, HK, Scissors, dash throw, and a few other options (not even including whatever the upcoming changes to other moves Bison will get that will ALREADY open up his gameplay). Sure an extra option wouldnt HURT, but it would have to have insane startup to just not simply get countered all the time. Besides, if bison got an overhead, I would rather it just be like Ryu’s.
ooc, what would work better, better tracking or a bigger hitbox on HS?
what would the difference really be?
I didn’t know EX PC absorbed a fireball, I was under the impression that it just went through it.
I guess the best way to explain it is that Bison turns into an 2 hit fireball, like m16ghost said. For example, if Ryu throws an EX Hadouken and Bison uses his EX PC, Bison will absorb the two hits from the fireball and will sail right through Ryu. Pretty lame if you ask me, but I’ve caught a few people off guard (not on purpose) with a throw once I land, since they’re usually looking to block the PC.
It can go through it on startup, when it’s invincible. The rest of the move is a 2-hit fireball, each hit hitting for 70.
Thus if you eat a 1-hit fireball, you hit the opponent for 70. If you eat a 2-hit fireball, you don’t even hit the opponent.
Sometimes you get hit mid move anyway though. The hitboxes are funny.
It also means moves that are projectile invincible beat it clean. (Ryu’s EX-tatsu, Blanka EX-ball, etc)
It doesn’t go through Bison on start up for the EX-PC.
The body portion (about 40-50% of Bison’s model) is still vulnerable to hits, it’s when you’re fully airborne that the EX-armor absorbs two hits. You still get hit by regular lariats because the two active hit boxes from his arms are still extended out, you go halfway and you get knocked back out into the corner if you EX-PC out and Gief lariats beforehand.
?
[media=youtube]tvgKMDHrV8o#t=3m17s[/media]
You can see the fireball pass Bison, and Ryu gets hit twice by the PC, so Bison clearly didn’t absorb anything.
I think what’s happening with the lariat is that Zangief has no hit box in the middle of his body, so EX-PC passes through. When the invulnerability on EX-PC ends, Bison gets tagged with the lariat hitbox which is out for days.
On a completely unrelated note, did you know that the invincibility on Gief’s lariat is so long that he can completely avoid Honda’s Ultra on wake up? That’s still the most retarded thing I’ve seen to date in SFIV. Gief is right on top of my Honda after knocking me down, he does lariat before I even get up, I do Ultra in retaliation, and I get three seconds of Honda pushing against nothing while Gief spins merrily in place. No one gets hit. Fucking stupid. >:|
Anyway, the only overhead Bison needs is a faster Headstomp that tracks better. A ground overhead, particularly a motion move, fucks with his style.
overheads have uses in SF4, i don’t understand how you could say otherwise. I’ll name a few: Boxer’s special can lead to ultra. C. Viper can wreak havoc with her overhead. I wouldn’t say it’s a critical aspect of their game but I doubt Fei Long or Guile would appreciate it if they had no overhead, they end up helping these two chars out a pretty good deal.
overheads have more mixup uses than mk, hk or scissors. I don’t see how those adequately do an overhead’s job but yet you list those as fine alternatives. they’re good pokes but an overhead isn’t just a poke.
with an overhead, you’ve got to keep on your toes instead of just down blocking and hanging out until your opponent is finished with his string, ready to tech a throw. if you’re satisfied with his pressure strings and the mixups that come from them, that’s fine, but Bison’s close pressure/mixups are relatively simple to deal with.
dictator has two mixup options up close considering you’re playing a competent player that is ready to tech:
-start a string to build charge and get some chip damage, whether this is from a jump in, dash forward, or empty neutral jumps for mixup
-throw a DR or HS in the middle of your string in the hopes that you’ll catch them off guard
These mixups are fine and actually work sometimes, mainly against people who have no idea what to do against Bison. Only changes I can see to his current moves to open up his mixup options are if DR and SD crossed up or if more of his moves left him with frame advantage so he can continue pressure strings. Sagat is a good example of someone who can keep the pressure on pretty hard. These are good, and I will be satisfied with changes along these lines, but with an overhead whether a special or just a special normal, his mixup game up close goes from decent to deadly. And do you always counter Boxer’s overheads or c. vipers or fei longs or ryus? they don’t have magical startup but that’s some killer reaction time if you can always see those coming and properly counter.
yeah that is incredibly stupid, but in the end you guys are just back to square one, at least he didn’t hit you out of it.
i agree a motion move wouldn’t be the best, i’d prefer a special normal. but anyways, how would a ground overhead mess with his style? And there’s a lot of approaches to playing Bison. I often like using non-charge combos with bison that allow me to break his ‘style’ a little bit and actually get some good damage after dashing in (cr. mp to s. rh or dash up st. lkx2 to roundhouse, dash up lk standing fierce standing lk standing roundhouse, cr. lp, s. lp, cr. mp, s. rh etc.). with an overhead you could do lots of fun things like force them to block up then immediately hit low or keep them comfy blocking up for a bit and then hit low, tic etc. all of these types of things fit with his ‘style’ imo and i believe with a proper overhead it could actually help lead into scissors.
The only thing I have to add about Psycho Banish as an overhead is that its startup would be relatively long (15-22ish frames). Overheads need to tread the fine line of being blockable on reaction. This makes it relatively useless as a fireball absorber, if anyone cared for that functionality. I’m ambivalent towards adding Psycho Banish.
I think slightly reducing the startup on headstomp would work for the “Bison needs an overhead” suggestion.
well the only reason i want psycho banish as an overhead is because i think it looks cool, that’s all. i also like cvs and using that move in grooves. the overhead could look like anything and i’d still use it, just make sure it walks that fine line like you said. headstomp is completely different and even if it were a bit faster, it’d be easy to spot and wouldn’t tread that line of ambiguity. I like to get in my character’s face and I want a mixup for that particular position. Headstomp can’t be thrown into the middle of a string as effectively as a real, on the ground overhead.
It’s possible. But I’m still confident that now the entire body is invincible. I’ve had training mode Ryu spam regular and EX hadoukens and I’m just shooting EX-PC through it. It hits, it whiffs, it absorbs. It goes through all kinds of shit.
I still don’t see why people want psycho banish so much. It was only good in CvS2 as a custom combo attack. This isn’t even the same game. And yeah, like m16ghost said, if they do add it, it ain’t gonna be fast, it’s gonna be slow as hell and has to be able to react to like Balrog’s overhead and you can guarantee that it wouldn’t be a safe move.
Plus, Bison has no problem against fireballs. All that mobility and ups… still though, the reduced startup time on DR/HS would be awesome. Please, Capcom! Make it so!
Perhaps when you choose to do EX Hands (totally blanking out on the name) have them fall where you pull it out so you can combo into ultra? Perhaps not the best addition but another way to get it in would be nice.
What do you mean it would have no use? That’s like saying Rogs overhead punch has no use and that’s not exactly true. Bison’s Main form of attack when in close is c.LK, that calls for crouch blocking. overhead=ideal. Why would it not be?
No one is disagreeing that Bison wouldn’t benefit from an overhead, just not in the form of Psycho Banish.
Ya a DP command overhead wouldn’t be so hot. A forward+button command would also kinda conflict with charge moves. If you’re planning on using it you’d need to drop your charge. It’d probably be better to just give him more block stun on c.LK for better tick throws.