The SRK Ethics/ Morality Thread ver. 2.0- Topic: Pedophilies

Unfortunately it seems that my last Ethics/Morality thread is gone to the aether, so I decided to make another one. The last discussion was about sociopaths/psychopaths and if they should be identified and segmented from jobs in which they could cause potential harm due to their inherent selfishness and complete lack of empathy.

This time the topic is on pedophiles. There was a recent article elaborating on pedophiles and their overwhelming compulsions that was very insightful:

Now the bolded part is what really interests me. Like psychopaths, many, if not most pedophiles probably have a genetic disposition towards their deviancy, which is explains why the ones that have molested children are always repeat offenders. The thing is, I still would have to say that if I was a father, none of that would really matter and I’d rather not have any pedophile existing within 1000 miles around my child, or any other children for that matter. Though pedophiles seeking reformation is admirable, it still would never quell the uneasiness of their existence anywhere in my vicinity. Even with all the rules and regulations, registered pedophiles still manage to be consistent offenders and it’s sad that any child has to become a statistic when they have absolutely no choice in the matter.

I’ve always held the stance that pedophiles are too sinister and destructive to society’s well-being; targeting the most weak and fundamental part of our family unit, our children. On the other hand, this research conflicts with a lot of the views I’ve had on their compulsion, and what to do with them. They’re already the most maligned members of virtually any society, but our judicial system has constitutional limitations on what can be done with them.

So what are your thoughts on the matter SRK? Ideally, what should be the best course of action? Wall them up in a super prison a la “Escape from L.A.”, try and “treat” their genetic affliction with more of our tax dollars, or simply go medieval and burn them all?

Constant supervision, possibly in a controlled environment.

And, y’know - eugenics.

Not for them, mind, considering that they aren’t fucking anything of a reproductive age, but within the entirety of the human gene pool.

Like it or not, certain traits need to be weeded out, if we’re ever going to achieve a free and peaceful world.

The impetus to baby fuck is one of them.

Every bit as much as Wall Street sociopathy is.

This is a surprisingly thoughtful thread about a really disturbing subject.

Propers, White Shadow.

I tend to not throw my hat in the ring on these topics partly because I’d end up typing up an essay length post, partly because most SRK’ers have tunnel vision and incessantly try to beat others into submission when their opinions aren’t taken as facts. But mostly because I know the vast majority of SRK has a certain predilection towards these topics like a bizarro Fox News and my own are usually at the polar opposite end of the spectrum to be drowned out. It was a cool read WS, although I spend a lot of time reading, writing about, and thinking about these kinds of moral and philosophical gray areas, I’ve never specifically thought about the plight of pedophiles.

I guess now we should all be more sympathetic towards @sovi3t, @angryliberal, and @million.

Um I am pretty sure you meant @anime thread, and angryliberal is like Kromo, he wants to BE the little girls…there is a difference.

@white shadow

can I ask you the question.

I’ve always held the stance that pedophiles are too sinister and destructive to society’s well-being; targeting the most weak and fundamental part of our family unit, our children

is that what not many anti gay people say??? just change gay with pedo, and children with family/marriage. the same line of logic was used against blacks or foerigners. its a weird cycle. its humorous to me at least

I’m not defending them by any means. but this rhetoric and this logic is exactly what many anti gay individuals spout.

tye only diffrence is this construct that for some reason children are incapable of making decisions.

ironically enough, our education system treats them as if they do, and our judicial system is willing to throw them in jail as if they knew better.

Unlike gays and insert ethnic/immigrant group here where propaganda is created under false pretenses, pedophiles by in large do hurt and defile children. There’s really no middleground in condoning their actions and desires. They understand that what they are doing is wrong, and a vast majority willingly take advantage of those who are utterly incapable of defending themselves, or are too naive to fully conceptualize what’s happening to them. That’s truly despicable and perpetually causes dysfunction for those children who later become adults themselves.

Knowing that there’s a genetic component doesn’t make their actions any less destructive, but it offers an insight that their compulsion isn’t purely out of choice- although they still have a choice over their actions…

It’s simple. Pedophiles don’t have any control over their sexual attraction/orientation, but they do have control over their actions. They should be given any support they need so they can control any harmful urges they have. If society punishes or ostracizes pedophiles who seek support, then they are going to be more likely to not seek support, which puts children in danger.

If a society doesn’t help pedophiles by offering support when they need it, then that society is also responsible for any children the pedophile might hurt. We know this is an issue, and turning a blind eye to it doesn’t help anyone. Punishing a pedophile after they’ve hurt a child should be the last resort.

Is that backed by facts?

I don’t know. I mean, obviously someone preying on children is creepy and weird, but in other societies it’s perfectly normal for people to get married (usually girls mind you) at 12. Indian folks think we’re barbaric for eating cows over here, so who’s right and who’s wrong? I’m not saying I think molesting children is a good thing or is right, but there is a bit of relativism here depending on where you ask the question and who you ask I guess. I don’t even know if I’m making sense…

What if they made pornography with actors/actresses that were of age, but had the look and physique of children? I see this as kind of being like the imitation blood in that show True Blood that some of the vampires choose to drink in lieu of the real thing and not hurting anyone.

What’s this? Someone on SRK using logical thought to address a topic?
I’m not sure how to feel about this, But I’m sure it will only be a few posts until someone throws a bitch fit and tries to tell you why you’re wrong and they’re right and blah blah blah.
So till then…I’m making popcorn.

Pedophilia is an attraction to pre-pubescent children. Some 12 year olds haven’t hit puberty, but one that has doesn’t really fall under the category of pedophilia. Societies do try to define pedophilia, and some dictionaries have even altered their definitions to reflect that, but once we start to include arbitrary ages set by a societal standard, the issue becomes clouded.

Also, the difference between eating cows and molesting children are pretty obvious. Most societies put human life and well-being above their animals. I understand the point you were trying to make, but I don’t think it’s applicable. Especially when you consider, that biologically, children aren’t even sexually attracted to anyone.

I didn’t know pre-pubescent was part of the definition but that makes sense. Technically in the US, if you have sex with someone who’s under the age of consent (even if they’ve gone thru puberty and are sexually attracted to someone) then you’re thought of as a pedophile regardless. The cow example was just to illustrate how arbitrary the age limits can be from society to society, but I agree with what you said.

I agree though that we need to help them control those urges. It’s the same way drug addicts are afraid to get help because of all the legal tough talk regarding drug offenses. I had a friend who’s now serving 20 for involuntary manslaughter because a chick he was hanging out with OD’ed at his house and instead of calling an ambulance because he thought he’d get into trouble, he tried to revive her himself. She’s dead now, but had he not felt that stigma of asking for help her life might have been saved. Just like we could save some kids a lot of childhood trauma if pedophiles could go somewhere for help.

Documentary on SRK Headquarters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEt3-kuVl5Y

"Pedophiles are approximately 2.5 times more likely to engage in physical contact with a child than simply voyeuristic or exhibitionistic activities (7)"
Cohen LJ, Galynker II. Clinical features of pedophilia and implications for treatment. J Psychiatr Pract . 2002; 8: 276— 289.

For those who are repeat offenders, would chemical castration be appropriate or would it be a violation of a violator’s rights? It’s been shown to be the best method at quelling their urges.

it’s wrong in a cultural context only. Ancient Greeks had pedophelia going on and was seen as something normal. Granted, they also believed in slavery, and where “ahead” of their time by not cariing about homo’s (only certain city states). Other’s tolerated etc. India allows it, and god damn Ghandi was a pedo. Again, im not trying to defend them, but your viewpoint, and my viewpoint is one that’s based on a cultural assessment. It’s wrong, yes, but relative to me, biologically, it’s not wrong though because it’s suddenly genetic. Just like homosexuality is wrong to others, but biiologically it’s not.

Your last statement it’s faulty? logic in a sense…the same can be said about gays, or transvestites, etc. Now, I know that’s the logic used to punish criminals, but again, crime is relative to observer (society).

The thing is, if it’s genetic, then it automatically falls under the same category as homosexuality, or gender identification. It becomes a cluterfuck, and if the socity is based on one of ethics, rather than morals, then there is nothing you can do, but help them as best as they can to adjust to the current ethics. Because even ethics are bound to cultural needs, because our ethics, are based on very refined morals.

If we are to say that it’s wrong, but biology spits in our face and says these are not desires, but biological functions, we are at a crossroads, where we owe that person a debt of responsibility to help him avoid fulfilling those biological functions. And this means that they have to be identified at a very young age, and be counseled to not want to do that. But society is also going to have to swallow the pill and acknowledge that it’s essentially torturing and making the lilves of people miserable and pushing them towards what we call evil deeds.

This truly is a cluster fuck. On one side you have biological functions, on the other you have something so abstract like individual rights. The righs of the one that desires children, and the rights of the children themselves. Interesting in deed.

It’s wrong from an ethical standpoint. There are clear studies showing the ongoing detrimental effects sexual abuse has on victims. Usually it is done by a person in power, mainly an acquaintance. So even when eliminating the cultural context (and cultures do illogical and unethical things all the time) they are still disobeying the law and involving themselves with children who have little recourse and against the parents’ wishes/knowledge (save for the occasional cases of child prostitution/incest).

Just because an ancient culture found it ok within that time period doesn’t make it ethical or beneficial to the individual, especially in a modern setting (since we can’t time travel and see the specific implications it had on their culture). Same way honor killings have no logical function in the modern world and is pretty much seen as murder in most countries.

I don’t find it faulty logic because it’s not relative to one’s sexual orientation, but their actions (being gay/transgender doesn’t involve harming or infringing on anyone else’s rights, so from an ethical standpoint there are no grounds to criminalize them). The same way being a psychopath doesn’t automatically make one a serial killer, but there’s a strong predisposition due to an inborn lack of empathy. Another difference here is that most pedophiles KNOW they are pedophiles and the implications therein, but most psychopaths have no way of recognizing their lack of empathy, having never feeling any.

Having a genetic predisposition isn’t the same as having absolutely no control (we’re fortunately endowed with a prefrontal cortex that gives us some capability of free will), the real issue is- do people with these urges have the fortitude to control themselves long term with treatment?

Dealing with complex societal issues like these is why I never want to have kids…

Why am I just noticing that name is “Old Pedo”? :rofl:

fair enough, but I the if the fact that it’s a biological function rather than it being a desire doesn’t make it so clear cut.

He does have the right to screw whatever he wants, but at the same time the child has the right not be screwed. Abstract notions make things so difficult. And the logic to me, the one you use, is exactly the same as those right wing christian extremists.

and then differentiating what is an ethic standard and what is a moral standard makes it that much more difficult. Especially since all ethics, stem from western ideas and morals that have been refined and explained better. So again, to me, using ethics doesn’t really clarify things. As much as I am against pedophiles, and as terrible as I think it is, this issue is no longer so simple…I now see it like I do the other 2

Is this a biological function, and if so, why did we evolve it.

or

Is this a more desire that can be controlled.

But if it is, so is homosexuality or gender identification. If it is a desire, and labeld as such, then I am forced to automatically place homosexuality and gender identification as issues that can be monitored and controlled, except they have good fortune that they aren’t dealing with children.

LOL, so many problems

And it’s old fart. Pedo in spanish is fart…at least from where my parents are from

What would you propose if it was a biologial function, and what do you propose if you believe it’s a desier that can be controlled?

Our society is so obsessed with youth pedophilia is practically legal

Interesting statistics, though it does leave out(assuming there is one) the population of pedophiles that engage in none of those activities. Still disturbing though.

I’m alright with chemical castration for repeat offenders, as well as first-time offenders. However, I think such a decision should be left up the the experts that have a deeper insight into the matter, rather than the angry mob. Maybe that sounds like a cop-out, but I believe bias and knee-jerk reactions have no place within the justice system.

I also think voluntary chemical castration should be made readily available. And it should be about as hassle free as obtaining birth control pills. I think the message we send as a society should be, that we are entirely against the acts of child voyeurism and molestation/assault, but completely supportive and accepting of pedophiles who seek help.

Evolution doesn’t work that simply. Aberrant mutations like these don’t really have a function, it’s merely a rewiring of impulses that should be geared normally towards reproduction. It’s the same way there’s no real evolutionary function for a child with Down Syndrome, and if we didn’t have technology most of these random mutations would be weeded out by natural selection. Mental issues are much harder to diagnose, especially before puberty, so the way they’re viewed by society is much different.

The only murky issue is that “sex offenders” and “pedophiles” should probably be clearly defined by the legal system before this could be enacted. Unfortunately, a significant portion of the sex offender database also includes hobos peeing dark alleyway that happened to be within 1000 feet of a school, or 18 yo high schooler caught having sex with his 17 yo girlfriend. Also there’s the whole eugenics angle… sigh…

Serial pedophiles with a long track record of abuse though, insta-neutered.